Feature Request: Repair and Enhance the Track Manager

[SloHand Solo]

It'd be helpful (at least to me) if I had the option of creating a list of screen sets that I could select from a drop down menu.  Like if I created screen sets named "winds", "strings", and "brass", and have ten buttons per item, launched by keys 1 through (1)0.  For instance, I could select "winds" and have the buttons assigned to Hi, Lo, Trumpets, Flutes, oboe, etc...

As a long-time programmer and 3D modeler, I use workspaces a lot to help keep things organized with quick access to defined area without having to navigate.  IDK, just a thought.  I'm not seeing many posts about people using them the way I am.  

Redescribed below

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SloHand Solo

[Xoo]

Could you not do something pretty close to this using the Control Bar's custom module?

[msmcleod]

Everything you've asked for can be done already in the screenset control bar module.

[user 905133]

22 hours ago, SloHand Solo said:

It'd be helpful (at least to me) if I had the option of creating a list of screen sets that I could select from a drop down menu.  Like if I created screen sets named "winds", "strings", and "brass", and have ten buttons per item, launched by keys 1 through (1)0.  For instance, I could select "winds" and have the buttons assigned to Hi, Lo, Trumpets, Flutes, oboe, etc...

I am not sure this is clear.  Are you asking for multiple sets of 10 screensets in each project?

  

 

[Xoo]

I now also wonder if Track Manager presets would do this (no button, but a fairly easy way to switch between groups of instruments): if your template(s) set up the tracks and the presets, you don't have to do it for any projects created from them.

[SloHand Solo]

11 hours ago, User 905133 said:

I am not sure this is clear.  Are you asking for multiple sets of 10 screensets in each project?

  

 

I gave this some more thought, and here's what I think would work really well.  I'm going to describe this as a programmer, so if anything's unclear, I'll follow up with some graphics and explanations.

Forget the Screen Sets.  Instead, in the Inspector Window add another tab called, "Navigator" or similar.  The tab would show the hierarchy of the Track View in a treeview.  The Navigator treeview would allow the user to select individual tracks and folders to hide or display.  The Track View, PRV, and Console should all sync up to this Navigator.  I would also want a search engine, so I could search the whole treeview for tracks with labels containing "strings", for example, and select the tracks I want in the results (or all), then have the option to save that selection as a user-defined filter, which there should be no limit of.  Tracks would appear in folders, only if that track's folder had been selected in the Navigator treeview as well.  What this would allow is a streamlined display of a certain instrument from many running synth libraries without the folders getting in the way.  

To be even more robust, maybe the Navigator window would allow for dragging tracks around and changing the structure of the Track View.

As far as the Screen Sets, they would work the way they're supposed to right now, with changing the display layout.  What I've been trying to do is use screen sets to only show the tracks I want, instead of having to select a filter I created in the PRV and Track View to keep them synced up.  It doesn't work.

If anything's unclear, or if you have a question about how to approach certain challenges, LMK..The better you make CbB, the better it is for me.

Edited November 17, 2023 by SloHand Solo

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

8 hours ago, SloHand Solo said:

add another tab called, "Navigator" or similar.  The tab would show the hierarchy of the Track View in a treeview.  The Navigator treeview would allow the user to select individual tracks and folders to hide or display.  The Track View, PRV, and Console should all sync up to this Navigator. 

That sounds like the Track Manager ? ( Press H ) 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[SloHand Solo]

28 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

That sounds like the Track Manager ? ( Press H ) 

The track manager doesn't keep the PRV in sync with the track view and anytime a track or folder is added, all of the user-defined filters get mangled!  All of them!  Because it doesn't keep the PRV in sync with the track view, I have to run two of the same filters, one on the track view and one on the PRV, in order to work with the same subset of tracks.  Adding a folder or track also destroys all of the user-defined filters on the PRV as well.   A search engine would be useful.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SloHand Solo

[SloHand Solo]

37 minutes ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

That sounds like the Track Manager ? ( Press H ) 

Let me clarify something in my last response.  If a row or folder is added. removed, or moved, the filters fall apart on the PRV and Track View (and ultimately the Console if it's in sync with the Track View).

[SloHand Solo]

If the track manager could be fixed and enhanced, I'm sure that would work fine.  I wouldn't mind seeing a dockable track manager window though.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

1 hour ago, SloHand Solo said:

If the track manager could be fixed and enhanced, I'm sure that would work fine.  I wouldn't mind seeing a dockable track manager window though.

I can agree that a more fully featured Track Manager that can be docked etc if you wish would be an improvement

[msmcleod]

FYI - the new Sonar has a new Track Manager button on both the Track View and Console View, which:

1. Allows quick access to your per-project Track Manager presets - i.e. they're listed in a drop-down menu
2. Can toggle the hidden state of all tracks
3. Gives a clear indicator as to whether any tracks are hidden
4. Allows you to quickly toggle the TV/CV sync state without having to open the track manager

We can take a look at the PRV anomalies - it sounds like there's some weird conflict going on between PRV filters and the track hidden state.

A more enhanced version of the Track Manager is likely on the cards at some point in the future - we started initial discussions, but has not been fully designed or scheduled yet.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

FYI - the new Sonar has a new Track Manager button on both the Track View and Console View, which:

When can we buy such a thing ! ?

( or at least Beta Test it ) 

[SloHand Solo]

6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

FYI - the new Sonar has a new Track Manager button on both the Track View and Console View, which:

1. Allows quick access to your per-project Track Manager presets - i.e. they're listed in a drop-down menu
2. Can toggle the hidden state of all tracks
3. Gives a clear indicator as to whether any tracks are hidden
4. Allows you to quickly toggle the TV/CV sync state without having to open the track manager

We can take a look at the PRV anomalies - it sounds like there's some weird conflict going on between PRV filters and the track hidden state.

A more enhanced version of the Track Manager is likely on the cards at some point in the future - we started initial discussions, but has not been fully designed or scheduled yet.

Okay, but one of the main things needed, but wasn't mentioned, is keeping the PRV track visibility in sync with the Track Manager/Track View and console tracks.

It makes no sense to me to show a different set of tracks in the Track View and Console than the PRV.

Edited November 18, 2023 by SloHand Solo

[SloHand Solo]

6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

FYI - the new Sonar has a new Track Manager button on both the Track View and Console View...

I don't know if access to the Track Manager was an issue, as H and Shift+H work great (haven't tried it from the console yet tho).  If the button could be added to the PRV as well, then that would be awesome!!  And to keep everyone happy, a flag/checkbox could be added to give the user the choice of keeping the prv in sync, just like the option to keep the console in sync.

[msmcleod]

2 hours ago, SloHand Solo said:

I don't know if access to the Track Manager was an issue, as H and Shift+H work great (haven't tried it from the console yet tho).  If the button could be added to the PRV as well, then that would be awesome!!  And to keep everyone happy, a flag/checkbox could be added to give the user the choice of keeping the prv in sync, just like the option to keep the console in sync.

The PRV has it's own filter button. AFAIK this is essentially a separate feature to the Track Manager, although it should respect the existing hidden status.  It's not really about keeping the PRV in sync - it's a different beast to the Track View / Console View, as it's already filtering out audio tracks / aux tracks / buses - what it should be doing is applying its filter on top of the currently visible tracks.

What isn't clear is what takes precedence... it seems to be taking it's cue from the Tracks View, which makes sense.  But if the track is hidden in the Console View,  but not hidden in the Tracks View should the track still be visible in the PRV? 

You may of course be just seeing a bug in the PRV filter in CbB.  The Track Manager button required a bunch of reworking of the code behind the scenes - some of it got backported to CbB as it did fix some bugs, but it didn't get everything because the feature itself isn't there.

[SloHand Solo]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

The PRV has it's own filter button. AFAIK this is essentially a separate feature to the Track Manager, although it should respect the existing hidden status.  It's not really about keeping the PRV in sync - it's a different beast to the Track View / Console View, as it's already filtering out audio tracks / aux tracks / buses - what it should be doing is applying its filter on top of the currently visible tracks.

What isn't clear is what takes precedence... it seems to be taking it's cue from the Tracks View, which makes sense.  But if the track is hidden in the Console View,  but not hidden in the Tracks View should the track still be visible in the PRV? 

You may of course be just seeing a bug in the PRV filter in CbB.  The Track Manager button required a bunch of reworking of the code behind the scenes - some of it got backported to CbB as it did fix some bugs, but it didn't get everything because the feature itself isn't there.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing.  Especially when you have a filter on the PRV, and then you change what's visible on the Track View it breaks the filter and you have to run the filter again.  But that's besides the point.  I think you and I have both demonstrated that the current setup is confusing and isn't even working the way it was initially intended.  What would make so much more sense would be to have the Track Manager be consistent and  handle the visibility of all of the windows containing tracks, instead of having it work one way for two windows, then another (confusing) way on another window.