Motu 4x4 keeps crashing; alternate interface recommendations?

[Will.]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:12 PM, Thomas Happ said:

As said in the title, my Motu 4x4 (or at least its drivers) keeps crashing.  Basically it'll get an "Audio Engine Dropout" and then all sound stops working across the computer.   Buffer size doesn't matter.  Sometimes it will start working on its own again after a few minutes, other times I need to turn the interface off and on, other times I need to reboot the computer. I can trigger it most easily by loading  up Rob Papen's Punch 2 and switching between kits with lots of samples, but it happens randomly at times as well, and I can't leave cakewalk open overnight or it will happen then.

While it may be at least partially a Cakewalk issue as well as a Motu issue, I feel that an interface should be reliable enough not to get crashed by a DAW.

Does anyone have recommendations for similar interfaces that are good but more reliable?  I'd prefer not to have to get an RME since I feel like it is way more than I should spend, but I do want something that won't crash all the time.

I'm on CBB version 2023.09 build 062, Windows 11, i9-12900K   3.19 GHz, 32 gb ram.

EDIT:  It appears the problem is reduced but not completely solved by plugging the M4 into a USB 2.0 rather than a USB 3.0 port.

 

Its not the interface. Test it on a windows 10 pc. There could be some compatibility issues with OS11 and Motu Drivers | or try a 3.0 Bus Port. 

[John Vere]

This is the script from a Video I made a year ago. And it could very well be OP's interface as these are some of the same symptoms I have. Never crashes Cakewalk but audio goes bad. And the drivers are for W11. As a matter of fact I was hoping my issues would be resolved when I get a new computer and W11. 

 

Shopping for an Audio Interface?

 

There is a lot of choices. And what works for so and so isn't what will work for you. You need to do a little research on your own. 

 Make a list of your requirements first.   Example you might determine you need a 4x4 interface. That just narrowed down the search by a lot!  You might only find 12 models and a few of those might be way out of your budget. Now compare those to get the most features needed. Don’t cheap out. Get what you need now because it’s false economy to short change yourself on features. You’ll end up spending more money down the line to make up for it.

 Example,  only 1 headphone output and you all of a sudden need 2. Now it will cost you another $100 or more to buy a multi channel headphone amp.

What kind of connectivity do you require? and how many of each. This is the most important determining factor. Most of us only need a few in/outs. It’s nice to not have to unplug and plug stuff in.

 If you already own a mixing board you can most certainly get by with less.  

These are some of the connectivity options:

XLR for mikes & 1/4" for instruments or better yet Combi jacks which are both. 

Then other options are  RCA, ¼” line level, ¼” Instrument level ,MIDI, SPDIF, ADAT, MADI

Especially MIDI jacks if you use vintage synths, drum machines or pianos.

How many ins and outs do you think you'll need now and in the future?

Are they accessible or are some on the rear panel?

Are the ¼” jacks Balanced?   

RCA jacks are handy if you have a DJ mixer or any consumer audio gear. 

And sometimes there are RCA  in Parallel with main outputs. 

Just make sure the outputs have connectivity that matches your studio monitors.

Is there a true stereo input pair? Some don’t have matching inputs which sucks for recording stereo devices like guitar pedal boards,  Hardware piano’s, synth and drum machines.

Are there channel Insert jacks for using hardware compressors. 

What type of connection to your commuter does it use. USB 2 is all you need for up to 32 channels of audio streaming. But USB 3 is now the most common. USB technology is always changing and upgrading. I'm seeing more USB C devices now. 

Here is some of the other front and rear panel features to look for

Are there peak level meters or just a little LEDs for each input? Do all inputs have a peak indicator?

Are there separate controls for Monitor level and headphone level? This is a pain when they combine these two.

Is there a blend control for mixing Input Source with Computer or DAW playback.  A lot of interfaces are missing this important feature and only have an on/off toggle. This makes it difficult to adjust what you’re hearing in your headphones and you have to muck about in your DAW to fix this. I think this control is a overlooked yet important feature. And then this might be only found in the Interfaces Control panel or software mixer, yet something else you might not be happy about. I need that blend knob. 

How many Headphone jacks? A level for each? This is also important if you work with other musicians.

And as I said it is cheaper to have it built in that having to go buy the additional hardware.

Are the input pads or line / Instrument toggle switches on the front, back or software controlled? Having them hidden is a bit of a pain because you might even forget they exist.

And then some interfaces don’t even give you the option of choosing the impedance at all and you find yourself now requiring a small mixer to use the say 3/4 input jacks like the Motu M4.

Is it a metal box or cheap plastic? Is it light and portable or large and bulky, Rack mountable? If you’re going to take it with you make sure it is road worthy.

Does it have an on / off switch? Many don’t. I use this a lot because I might change from on board audio to my interface. Much easier to turn off a switch than unplug it.  

Does it use Buss power or a power supply?  Look for at least an optional power supply. 

Buss power can have issues with noise and Phantom power and some need a dedicated USB buss to achieve the correct amperage. 

I had to purchase a special PCIe card just to power my Motu m4 and that cost me 40 bucks. And it is still having issues that may be related to this. 

Does it have DSP effects built in? This is great for adding reverb to you headphone mix without actually recording it. And there might be a compressor and special guitar effects you do want to record. Once again it’s saves you money if you will need these things.

Does it use a Software  GUI mixer? Having a software mixer adds more monitoring options. My Focusrite 6i6 has a mixer and I can use it to create 6 different headphone Que mixes. Cool.  But I also find it clunky for making adjustment of playback and input levels.  A blend control on the front panel is defiantly high on my list now. 

Does it have a Loop back function? This is a newer feature that is real important if you do live streaming,  screen captures, Zoom or stand alone VST recording. It will also record off the internet say from you tube or sites that won’t let you download.   

Do you need low  Round Trip Latency for real time processing like Guitar Sims?  

Most average priced interfaces like Tascam, Steinberg, Pro Sonus,  Scarlett’s and my Motu have around 10 ms of RTL at a working Buffer of 256. You might get this lower if you have a very fast computer. 

Low RTL is going to be at a higher price point. Probably over $500  like RME stuff. There is almost no information or specs supplied buy most manufacturers. They will tell you up to 5ms of RTL but they are not getting that at a buffer setting that is actually usable on older or under powered systems. You’ll suffer drop out and stuttering.

Zero Latency monitoring is not the same as round trip latency All interfaces have latency. The A/D converter adds almost 1ms of latency for starters, your USB system, computer processing the D/A converter and so on. But this doesn’t matter when you use direct monitoring. You’ll hear everything in perfect sync.

Zero latency is only referring to monitoring directly from the interface.

And most important of all, Does it have top notch ASIO drivers for your OS.  Don’t buy any interface that say’s “class compliant driver”  That will work for a Mac, but not very well with a PC. 

What is the word on support from the company? Visit the web site and try creating an Account before you purchase. Pretend you just bought the device.  

See if the drivers and manuals are easy to get at and kept up to date. Are they a  PC or Mac oriented company.

And this one I think is also overlooked--

Does it come with free software, Example Focusrite interfaces seem to come with a lot of good actually usable stuff.  There could be over $200 in value here so make sure you check this out. Most companies only give you some lame version of a DAW that you are probably not interested in because you already have a great free DAW with Cakewalk.  

Everyone will recommend the interface they have chosen, that doesn't mean it is the right one for you. But recommendations are also part of the research needed to make the right decisions. But they should not be what you base you decision on only part of it. 

Make your list starting with the input /output specs. Check for pricing on sites like Amazon, Sweetwater or Musicians Friend. The reviews are a very good resource but take the negatives with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of idiots who have no clue as what they are doing and they vent by writing a negative review.  Most times they never bothered to read the manual or download the ASIO driver. 

The audio interface is the heart of a digital studio. It is the centerpiece and spending money on this is more important than your actual computer.

So have fun shopping.

Edited September 26, 2023 by JohnnyV

[luvtrax]

Same thing... I just got my M6 yesterday. I loaded the drivers into my notebook where my SSL is. I uninstalled the SSL drivers and installed the motu drivers.... As soon as I start the DAW I get a blue screen.... I closed the software down and opened up the control panel for the M six and selected 48k.... Immediately, my computer crashes.  I have a desktop in my studio as well but I am not loading it on there because of the problems I'm having on the laptop. My SSL2 works on both machines flawlessly. I just wanted to buy separate interface for the computer in my studio with four outputs.

There are too many interfaces out there for me to get on the phone with MO2 on Monday and try and solve this problem so after a couple hours of messing around I put it back in the box took it to the UPS store returning it to Amazon and I'll be buying the SSL2+ I think motu is better for Mac users. When I got my SSL I downloaded the drivers, installed the drivers updated the firmware i've never ever ever had a problem... When I have issues out of the box, I'm done.

[John Vere]

My update to this situation is I bought a Zoom L8. 
It is a much more stable interface than the Motu M4. 
1- No more dropouts at lower buffer settings. The Zoom can run at 64. Same project with the Motu was 256. 

2- No more thump in my monitors on boot up. Just a very quiet click. 

3- No more random garbled audio on new audio recording. This was a super annoying issue where a total restart of computer was required to continue working. 

 

[Alan Tubbs]

If you need a no compromise interface try the Neumann mt 48.  It is a take off of merging technologies hardware.  Just finished a tape op review and it worked fine on pc.  136 dB gain on crystal clear preamps, reference quality adda and an internal digital mixer for 0 latency and world class eq (and the dynamics on each channel ain’t shabby at all).  it has most of the features of a large format console including a monitor sections.  It has a great but small touch screen with easy access to the most used functions.  

When I checked to see if it was outputting sound I plugged in the headphones ( I cracked a couple of lamar’s so digging around low didn’t appeal to me until more pain meds kicked in).  My Akg 240s sounded better than my mains.  If you want to hear that step up from commercial gear pros talk about try it.

It does cost almost 2 grand but is worth it if you can afford it.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Alan Tubbs

[Thomas Happ]

Just wanted to note that two days ago I got a Clarrett+ 4Pre.  It's powered by an ac adapter, not the bus.  No crashes or having to restart the interface so far, though there have been a couple of audio dropouts when I was just scrubbing around.

I found out right away that the Clarrett+ interfaces don't have loopback, a feature I haven't wished for in a long time but I needed it yesterday; I plugged the spidf output into the input to get around that.

 

Edit:  Left Cakewalk open for a couple nights in a row and it finally crashed, but the interface did NOT crash.  Pretty good eh?  Also the spidf out is a handy way to connect to my home theater receiver that the Motu M4 lacks.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Thomas Happ