Native Instruments Kontrol S - Mk 3 compatbility - New Sonar ???

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

I use Kontakt a lot and the the new S series Mk 3 keyboards look very interesting but I just watched a review which says for it to function properly the DAW needs to be made compatible.

I don't know what this entails and as CbB is now sunsetted that's obviously never going to happen, but as all the other major DAWs look to be compatible or adding compatibility is this something we can hope for in the new Sonar ?  

Edited September 22, 2023 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[Teegarden]

Would be very nice if BandLab would pay effort to get the hardware manufacturers to make their new keyboards/controllers fully compatible with Sonar. 

If this will happen, why would it not be compatible with CbB? Sonar is just a name change and another update of a DAW that has many years of backward compatibility...

[azslow3]

From the amount of feedback I have got about my integration for M/A controllers (probably somehow works with S MK2, but I don't know if someone has ever tried), special integration with CbB/Sonar probably is not worse the resourced required to develop it ?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 9/23/2023 at 9:09 PM, Teegarden said:

If this will happen, why would it not be compatible with CbB? Sonar is just a name change and another update of a DAW that has many years of backward compatibility...

Because it sounds like it would require some new code and no new code is going into CbB from this point forward. 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

20 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

From the amount of feedback I have got about my integration for M/A controllers (probably somehow works with S MK2, but I don't know if someone has ever tried), special integration with CbB/Sonar probably is not worse the resourced required to develop it ?

I think if it's to be once again taken seriously then it's these types of things that can be deciding factors for busy media composers 

[azslow3]

11 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I think if it's to be once again taken seriously then it's these types of things that can be deciding factors for busy media composers 

What I think about M32/Axx  you can read here: https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,608.0.html

I know Sxx is different and so my opinion about it will be different.. But NI has made logical from marketing point of view, but for me "user unfriendly" decisions for all keyboard:
1) these controllers are not "MIDI", they are able to work throw proprietary protocols/software/logic only. That way NI is able to keep full control on what user can do with these devices. And they already have many questionable artificial limitations. F.e. while everything on device technically produce "a signal", many of these signals and feedbacks can't be used at all (even in official DAW integrations).
2) (the consequence of (1)) they kind of enforcing Komplete Kontrol and limiting DAW integrations
3) they (intentionally? I think so...) care keyboards no way used as Maschine devices, so you have to buy both if you feel yourself "limited". There is place for pads on A/S and the price, especially for S MK3, definitively can cover several $ worse pads matrix. But in practice they put bare minimum of buttons on all keyboards and still where possible "killing" the functionality of these buttons.

So, as a DAW controller something MCU like is better (faders, more buttons, etc.), for  recording/controlling anything except Komplete Kontrol wrapped instruments most other controllers are more flexible and as pure 88 hammer action for the price (of S88 MK3) it is possible to get "real" (long) one.

I mean there is a narrow region where NI Sxx are good, but multiplying the number of users which work in the range by the probability they are using Cakewalk as the DAW and the probability they want a bit more then "MCU compatible" mode (in practice with standard integration that means not a big difference), you get the number very close to zero. So NI nor Cakewalk will get no significant profit, while investing into one time development and paying for support. I hope I have managed to explain the point of my original comment  

 

 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

5 hours ago, azslow3 said:

2) (the consequence of (1)) they kind of enforcing Komplete Kontrol and limiting DAW integrations

The new one doesn't force KK for using the Kontakt instruments, it's directly integrated with K7

Personally I don't care for pads, or faders much which are absent on the new model. I have them on my M-Audio controller and never use them. What I do use a lot in Kontakt , pretty much every track I make has a handful of Kontakt Instruments or more. So having direct control from the keyboard itself is a big attraction to me. 

[azslow3]

4 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

The new one doesn't force KK for using the Kontakt instruments, it's directly integrated with K7

Personally I don't care for pads, or faders much which are absent on the new model. I have them on my M-Audio controller and never use them. What I do use a lot in Kontakt , pretty much every track I make has a handful of Kontakt Instruments or more. So having direct control from the keyboard itself is a big attraction to me. 

I agree, direct Kontakt integration is a good thing, especially since Kontakt is multi-instrument and so it doesn't "fit" into Komplete Kontrol concept. But how that is bound to MK3? I have found no info if/when they allow that from MK1/MK2/M/A as well (obviously that is no technical show stoppers). Sure, NI can just say "that is S MK3 feature", but I hope (for them) they don't.

In general, I completely agree that controlling NI synths with NI controller is a good idea.

But for DAW integration, I was writing about a possibility to control arbitrary synthes and FXes, not about one particular (like Kontakt). DAWs normally have some own way (apart from direct MIDI learning) to control plug-ins. What is still not there is some more or less working and common way to select presets, that is what NI (and Akai) try to mitigate with KK/VIP. But preset tuning is more or less the same everywhere. Sure, not for everything, but that is also true for NI MK3, even in the official demo they use mouse once it comes to "unusual" parameter change.

PS. strip above wheels is great change,  a fix for design mistake they have made originally (on M32 there are strips only... the number of times I have touched them without intention when operating buttons above can't be counted by fingers... )