Reaper 7 is coming... Not a deal

[Bapu]

4 hours ago, jackson white said:

as a S1/CW user. have you found a custom theme that enhances your productivity in Reaper?

or do you run with the default ui?

tia

 

I forget the name, but it's sooth or smooth or something like that. I like the way it shows the indention of channel/folder/bus in the mixer.

[Monomox]

37 minutes ago, iNate said:

Not quite sure thats how things went exactly for products like Studio One and Bitwig. 

As products mature there is less room for innovation, so v6 is bound to be less revolutionary than v2. 

But, "blah blah blah" is a bit exaggeratory, don't you think?

By the time a product line gets to v5/6, users have generally pivoted towards asking for QoL over big ticket features. The product, by that point, has already established itself and the people looking for things like clip launchers have already chosen to go elsewhere and get it. 

Expectations have been set, and the user base has largely leveled out and biased heavily towards those people who the DAW already meets the needs of, which ultimately tilts development in the direction of their desires. 

Anything else becomes niche de facto, so the people who want it tend to choose a different product. 

This is pretty standard across all product lines. 

It's why most REAPER users are fine with the UI, even as many of us avoid it for that specific issue - in many cases choosing to pay a far higher price to get a product that delivers what we desire ? 

And REAPER is unlikely to improve in that area for the exact reasons I've mentioned. 

To clarify, what I meant by "blah blah blah" was that the cycle repeats. Maybe that's how you interpreted it. 

Also, I don't think you and I have very different opinions.

Studio One is the only DAW I use. Reaper was the first DAW I learned how to use. Both DAWs are exactly in that part of the cycle where innovation is marginal at best. That's good and bad for them.

I agree that Reaper, Studio One and other DAWs (and software beyond audio applications) benefit from a user base willing to stick with the same product not despite, but because of stability and familiarity (i.e., "lack" of innovation). I'd argue, however, that's where DAWs peak and users start to either migrate to other (more innovative) DAWs or stop paying for upgrades. For example, I don't plan to upgrade to S1 v6 or Reaper v6 (I paid for v5, so 6 is free for me, but I don't see why I should bother).

Finally, I want to clarify that I'm not saying users want innovation for the sake of innovation (apart from a few early adopters), they want other things such as an improved ease of use, innovative business models, 3rd-party extensions,* workflows that didn't exist before, etc.*  They stick with a product until a new developer comes along with something that checks most of the boxes.

* This was innovative in its time

Edited August 7, 2023 by Monomox

[Jim Roseberry]

I see Reaper as more of an engineer's tool than a music production tool.  

I tend to use Reaper for simpler projects (audio editing, learning songs, recording a VO for the wife, etc).

I gave up trying different Theme's years ago.  That rabbit-hole can burn hours of time... and doesn't seem to change much (anything?) function wise. 

 

Reaper is incredibly CPU efficient... and is particularly good for audio editing. 

The Item Editor is similar to Samplitude's Object Editor (lots of realtime control).

 

I'd actually like to see the "road plan" or stated development goals for v7.

 

 

[ralfrobert]

18 hours ago, Bapu said:

I forget the name, but it's sooth or smooth or something like that. I like the way it shows the indention of channel/folder/bus in the mixer.

This might be what you mean: Smooth 6

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=228983

[Bapu]

3 minutes ago, ralfrobert said:

This might be what you mean: Smooth 6

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=228983

Yup that's it.

[TheMaartian]

28 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

I see Reaper as more of an engineer's tool than a music production tool.  

I tend to use Reaper for simpler projects (audio editing, learning songs, recording a VO for the wife, etc).

I gave up trying different Theme's years ago.  That rabbit-hole can burn hours of time... and doesn't seem to change much (anything?) function wise. 

 

Reaper is incredibly CPU efficient... and is particularly good for audio editing. 

The Item Editor is similar to Samplitude's Object Editor (lots of realtime control).

 

I'd actually like to see the "road plan" or stated development goals for v7.

 

 

This is exactly the reason I stopped using Reaper and went back to Studio One after Sonar Platinum went splat. I was wasting WAY too much time playing with the UI, trying to get it where the look of it didn't bother me. If the themes were professionally created and curated against the default Reaper theme, I would be happy to pay for one that worked for me, knowing that it was complete and supported and that if there was an issue with it, it would be corrected. If you read the comments on the popular themes, one common thread is that something/some feature is missing vis-a-vis the default theme. If you don't need that missing feature, no problem. If you do, you're almost always SOL.

What do I dislike most about Reaper (and I do like and respect it) is: 1) the menus, and 2) the window that plugin UIs open in. That said, Reaper is awfully good at a lot of tasks, and no other DAW has Kenny Gioia.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

19 hours ago, Monomox said:

This is my non-developer take on developing (innovative) software:

• you think of a million things you can improve from the status quo, and
• create an innovating product that impresses people and makes them think "how innovative, if this is v1, imagine v6!!"
• however, every new version becomes more complex and, adding to the complexity, it has to be compatible with previous versions
  • in the case of Reaper this is probably worse since there's an ecosystem of 3rd-party extensions
• by the time v5 comes along people are "blah, what else is new.... uh! look! that other developer created a truly innovative daw, if this is v1, imagine v6!!"
• however, every new version.... blah blah blah

While this could probably be true in some places, music software users prioritize stability over features. Doesn't matter if your eye candy filled interface can slice you lunch, emulate a lava lamp and make you capuccino if it crashes all the time.  People are just gonna use something else.

[Gang5]

I've been using Reaper for almost six years, and I've never been more productive. I have not experienced one crash.  Reaper chugs along with projects that would bring other DAWs to its knees. In all this time I've only spent $60.  When version 7 arrives I will gladly fork over another $60.

[Bapu]

1 hour ago, Gang5 said:

I've been using Reaper for almost six years, and I've never been more productive. I have not experienced one crash.  Reaper chugs along with projects that would bring other DAWs to its knees. In all this time I've only spent $60.  When version 7 arrives I will gladly fork over another $60.

If Studio One had not implemented their Arranger and Chord tracks when they did, Reaper would be my daily DAW for sure. I too will gladly fork over another license fee for v7.

[Last Call]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:55 PM, Monomox said:

This is my non-developer take on developing (innovative) software:

• you think of a million things you can improve from the status quo, and
• create an innovating product that impresses people and makes them think "how innovative, if this is v1, imagine v6!!"
• however, every new version becomes more complex and, adding to the complexity, it has to be compatible with previous versions
  • in the case of Reaper this is probably worse since there's an ecosystem of 3rd-party extensions
• by the time v5 comes along people are "blah, what else is new.... uh! look! that other developer created a truly innovative daw, if this is v1, imagine v6!!"
• however, every new version.... blah blah blah

I didn't get where you were going with this, sorry.

Anyway, skinning is so easy to do in Reaper, and if I was more into it, I would probably end up with a skin that looked like some Acustica Audio plugins (which look amazing) without breaking functionality.
Studio 1, Cakewalk (there's an amazing Reaper skin that looks like it), Pro Tools look way better than Reaper.
There's a Reaper skin I love but it's so dark I can't use it everyday (JRENG's Metric). But it shows a labor of love.
New Reaper skin (version 7) shows an improvement over version 6 but still feels lazy.

But then I open Logic Pro and feel right at home.

There are zillions of opinions and probably they are all right.
Taste and needs and what not lead you one way or another.

[TheMaartian]

11 hours ago, Bapu said:

If Studio One had not implemented their Arranger and Chord tracks when they did, Reaper would be my daily DAW for sure. I too will gladly fork over another license fee for v7.

Fortunately for me, I bought a new license after my v4/v5 license expired when v6 was released. And when was that? Like 4 years ago? My current license is for v6/v7. If v7 is around as long as v6 has been, I'll have gotten about 8 years out of the last $60 I paid them. That's a true bargain for such a solid, complete DAW.

Edited August 9, 2023 by John Maar

[Starship Krupa]

On 8/5/2023 at 4:51 AM, Esteban Villanova said:

Reaper is a company run by a guy who has NO aesthetic or moral sensibilities to see that the guy he hired is a talentless tyrant.

One of the things that has put me off from the company is the apparent "in your face" snotty locker room bro attitude.

Naming the company "Cockos?" Calling their plug-in language "Jesusonic?" That indicates (to me) limp high school rebellion. People are supposed to outgrow that crap.

I have a hunch that you won't find many women working there.

[Gang5]

You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off

[Esteban Villanova]

18 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

One of the things that has put me off from the company is the apparent "in your face" snotty locker room bro attitude.

Naming the company "Cockos?" Calling their plug-in language "Jesusonic?" That indicates (to me) limp high school rebellion. People are supposed to outgrow that crap.

I have a hunch that you won't find many women working there.

Oh yeah, the snotty attitude goes WAY beyond that but I won't get into that.

[TheMaartian]

One more thing about Reaper themes...

Learning and using Reaper without Kenny Gioia is a much greater challenge, and ALL of Kenny's videos use the default theme. Some are harder to follow when using a non-default theme. I know. I've tried.

[Jim Roseberry]

13 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

One of the things that has put me off from the company is the apparent "in your face" snotty locker room bro attitude.

Naming the company "Cockos?" Calling their plug-in language "Jesusonic?" That indicates (to me) limp high school rebellion. People are supposed to outgrow that crap.

I have a hunch that you won't find many women working there.

Yeah, I was thinking the same.

I wouldn't avoid using Reaper due to the above... but it does make one do a double-take and a head-shake.

 

You find the same thing with Friedman Amps.

Pink Taco, Dirty Shirly, Brown Eye, Hairy Brown Eye, Small Box

I think Dave's amps are great (have owned several)... but the naming is a bit sophomoric.

[Gang5]

20 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

That indicates (to me) limp high school rebellion. People are supposed to outgrow that crap.

I suggest you avoid the Coffee House...

[InstrEd]

3 minutes ago, Gang5 said:

I suggest you avoid the Coffee House...

Ouch

 

[iNate]

On 8/7/2023 at 4:07 PM, Monomox said:

* This was innovative in its time

The tone inferred is exaggeratory.  

There was nothing innovative about that, as this has been the norm in the 1980s, when software was built largely for developers and users in that field.  That's why every major text editor from the 1980s was extensible in this way, along with every IDE and a lot of other software as a result of it.  REAPER leaning into this is not innovative, it's a throwback to market norms of existed 40+ years ago, and this is why it's so polarizing.

REAPER is still developed like it is being developed in the 1980s for a 1980s user base.  Some people will love that (it's why Linux has a cult following), but the majority will simply not have the time or want to bother with it.

Extensibility will always exist, esp in professional software, but the degree to which it is normalized this day is VERY different from what it was in the past.

REAPER still lives in that past.

On 8/10/2023 at 3:07 AM, John Maar said:

Learning and using Reaper without Kenny Gioia is a much greater challenge, and ALL of Kenny's videos use the default theme. Some are harder to follow when using a non-default theme. I know. I've tried.

This is a valid issue and one that I have voiced in the past on this forum.  Some of these themes attempt to make the entire DAW look like another (Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.) which can make it more difficult for newer users to utilize reference material and [video] tutorials.

They can only be assumed to work well for the person who is pushing them.

This is why some DAWs have limited editing of keyboard commands and UI layout.

It's like a Calculus textbook using a TI-83 for everything, but you show up with a Casio.  Not only do you have to learn how to do the math, but you also have to level out the disparities between the two devices/interfaces in real-time while doing so.

And that's ignoring the fact that the most offensive parts of REAPER's UI are the parts you can't theme, anyways.

Edited August 11, 2023 by iNate

[iNate]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:34 PM, Starship Krupa said:

One of the things that has put me off from the company is the apparent "in your face" snotty locker room bro attitude.

Naming the company "Cockos?" Calling their plug-in language "Jesusonic?" That indicates (to me) limp high school rebellion. People are supposed to outgrow that crap.

I have a hunch that you won't find many women working there.

It's no different with women.  We just give them a pass because... woman.

For me, it's about how they serve those who are paying for the product.  If they are dismissive of paying customers, that is a fundamentally far bigger issue.

For professional use, they are cheaper - completely viable - products from developers that care more about their users.