Kontakt 5: Is it possible to move pre-mapped library samples to different keys?

[Christian Jones]

I have the Straight Ahead Bass upright bass sample library and they've got the notes mapped from E0 to G3, and all the keys after G3 on the Kontakt keyboard are blacked out, and the four keys below E0 are key switches. I'd like this instrument to be mapped an octave up at E1 to G4 instead, but when I highlight all the samples in the mapping editor and manually drag them up to that location the sounds don't actually move and the blacked out keys never become activated or what have you (never turn blue). I just want to move the samples further up the keyboard (not transpose). This is easily done w/ your own sample wav files, but is there just no way to do this for a 3rd party sample library that came pre-mapped? Is the fact that key switches are involved complicating things? I feel like w/ Kontakt as powerful as it is there has top be a way to do this.

[bitflipper]

You shouldn't have to remap the samples. That could be a real chore depending on how complex the map is (e.g. multiple groups and velocity layers).

Click on the wrench icon, then the Instrument Options button. In the dialog that comes up, click on "Instrument". There is a field there where you can enter a transpose value. Set it to -12, so when you play E1 Kontakt translates that into E0.

[Christian Jones]

Thanks yeah it's weird because when I set the transpose to -12 it causes Kontakt to trigger E1 when playing E0 like you said, but the key switches get all messed up in the transpose, but in a way that doesn't make sense - like, the key switches are alternating themselves between C1, C#1 and D1 to C2, C#2 and D2 each time I press one of the key switches - immediately after I press one then next time that key switch will have moved itself either an octave up or down. Like say the key switch on C1 will perform it's function when I press it, but when I go to press C#1 it's not there and it has moved it's self to C#2 - and when I press it then the other key switches move themselves either up or back an octave and if I happen press one of the key switches that has moved itself so that there is no function there then doing so silences ALL the notes until I find where it put itself lol. I think this program is wonky somehow this doesn't seem right. Vender is non-responsive too, but I bet they'd respond if I contacted them through paypal lol. This is the Straight Head Bass library from Straight Ahead Samples.

Really, all I wanted to do was detune this E-tuned instrument to Eb and then move the mapping down one half step to reflect that, but they've got the Eb0 key blacked out so when I move the mapping down that half step that key is not functional - it plays every third time you hit it lol. dang

Edited August 12, 2019 by Christian Jones

[S.L.I.P.]

I'm not at my computer right now, but I believe under the factory scripts there are tuning options.  

[bitflipper]

On 8/11/2019 at 8:19 PM, Christian Jones said:

...the key switches get all messed up in the transpose, but in a way that doesn't make sense - like, the key switches are alternating themselves between C1, C#1 and D1 to C2, C#2 and D2 each time I press one of the key switches - immediately after I press one then next time that key switch will have moved itself either an octave up or down...

Ah, I see the problem. Most users ask this question because they're using a short keyboard and Kontakt maps keyswitches to keys that don't physically exist on the controller. In that case, moving the keyswitches up an octave along with everything else is desirable.

It sounds like the library developer didn't take transposition into account, and may have hard-coded MIDI note values into some scripts. It's possible you just won't be able to do what you want to do with this particular instrument. At least not without remapping the samples, as you concluded. Something you'd think would be simple, but my experiences attempting to remap commercial products have had mixed results so I don't do it anymore. 

One of the reasons I'm fond of Orange Tree and Indiginus is that they support keyswitch reassignment right in the UI. My favorite Kontakt-based bass is OTS' Rickenbacker, in which drop tuning is a built-in feature. All you have to do then is transpose the MIDI track, rather than the instrument.

[Michael A.D.]

Would this notemapper help?

https://www.codefn42.com/notemapper/index.html

[Christian Jones]

Thanks bitflipper, I just check out corebass pear. 

Michael A.D. - thanks that's a cool program to have anyway. But this transpose issue is not the only problem with the Straight Ahead Bass (upright) library. There's also clicks/pops heard in the first few notes played immediately after using any of the key switches, after those first few notes it plays fine. If it were a buffer issue the clicks would be constant. I'm thinking it's just a poorly-written library in general, at least the version I have which is presumably the newest but anyway I'll just move on to something else. 

[bitflipper]

I don't have it myself so I can't speak from authority, but it just sounds like that library may have too many limitations.

Pear is the only OTS bass I don't have. When I need an acoustic, I turn to Trilian. Spectrasonics is a different world from Kontakt and not as easy to use, but the instruments are truly outstanding. Especially the acoustic basses (yes, basses, plural). Trilian's rather pricey but you get a whole bunch of basses and they're all good.  

[Christian Jones]

Right on. Yeah a friend has Trilian and it's pretty dope for what it is, but as a bass player I won't let myself have such a library and I'm void of guitar libraries for the same reason lol. Upright bass is the one exception since I don't have or play one so that's all I need and though I heard the uprights in Trilian are pretty awesome it'd be a bit overkill for all I need. Despite researching I guess I chose wrong the first time around w/ this library.

[bitflipper]

Oh, don't be a Luddite! ? I'm a piano player who owns a real grand piano, but that doesn't stop me from having multiple Steinway libraries.

Just kidding. I don't own a real Steinway, so a sample library is the only way I'm ever gonna get one into a recording. 

The OTS Pear is a little dated, not quite as good as Trilian IMO, but it's only $59 and unless your song prominently features the instrument it should do the job just fine. It has the main feature I look for first in a bass library: the ability to slide convincingly between any two notes, which many (most?) bass libs can't do without complicated scroll wheel trickery. They're scripted slides as opposed to sampled slides, but in context that's usually good enough.

[RBH]

On 8/14/2019 at 5:32 PM, Christian Jones said:

Thanks bitflipper, I just check out corebass pear. 

Michael A.D. - thanks that's a cool program to have anyway. But this transpose issue is not the only problem with the Straight Ahead Bass (upright) library. There's also clicks/pops heard in the first few notes played immediately after using any of the key switches, after those first few notes it plays fine. If it were a buffer issue the clicks would be constant. I'm thinking it's just a poorly-written library in general, at least the version I have which is presumably the newest but anyway I'll just move on to something else. 

Christian, I have CoreBass pear as well, I never noticed the clicking you're talking about, but I will check into it again. It could be that my Spidey sences aren't as finely tuned.  There may be a non default Kontakt pre read setting that needs to be tweaked - if I notice the same key switch issues, I'll look into that as well. Orange Tree seems to be pretty responsive to inquiries - so it might worth a mention and see if they have any recomendations.

[Matthew Sorrels]

You might be able to use this free Kontakt multiscript:

https://cinesamples.com/product/cinemap

To remap the keyswitches and the key range.

[Christian Jones]

5 hours ago, RBH said:

Christian, I have CoreBass pear as well, I never noticed the clicking you're talking about, but I will check into it again. It could be that my Spidey sences aren't as finely tuned.  There may be a non default Kontakt pre read setting that needs to be tweaked - if I notice the same key switch issues, I'll look into that as well. Orange Tree seems to be pretty responsive to inquiries - so it might worth a mention and see if they have any recomendations.

Thanks RBH, though I was actually talking about the Straight Ahead Bass upright sample library that's problematic. I don't have corebass pear but that was a typo up there - I meant to say I'll check out corebass pear. I'm abandoning SA Bass, as the momentary clicks/pops alone that occur after using a key switch makes it unusable even if I could successfully remap it. 

I need a solid upright bass library that I can tune down to Eb and slide the mapping down to reflect that so I'm not playing an Eb tuned instrument in E on the keyboard. That was easy enough to do w/ the main tune knob in Kontakt, but the developer did something to the Eb0 key so that when I slide the notes down a half step in the mapping area so that the instrument would then start on the Eb0 key to reflect the Eb tuning, the Eb0 key only works every third time you press it. There's no key switch assigned to that Eb0 key; it's just all whacked out like that and that's the only reason I was trying to move the keys an octave up, hoping that the Eb1 key would be functional for this but this library isn't worth further thought from me. Thanks all for trying to help me w/ it. 

[Christian Jones]

5 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

You might be able to use this free Kontakt multiscript:

https://cinesamples.com/product/cinemap

To remap the keyswitches and the key range.

Thanks dude I'll score that anyway, that's a cool utility 

[Robert Bone]

If needed, I just edit the instrument and alter the key switch assigned note values down an extra octave or two to get them out of the way if I am playing low notes.

Bob Bone

 

[Christian Jones]

On 8/15/2019 at 4:01 PM, bitflipper said:

Oh, don't be a Luddite! ? I'm a piano player who owns a real grand piano, but that doesn't stop me from having multiple Steinway libraries.

Just kidding. I don't own a real Steinway, so a sample library is the only way I'm ever gonna get one into a recording. 

The OTS Pear is a little dated, not quite as good as Trilian IMO, but it's only $59 and unless your song prominently features the instrument it should do the job just fine. It has the main feature I look for first in a bass library: the ability to slide convincingly between any two notes, which many (most?) bass libs can't do without complicated scroll wheel trickery. They're scripted slides as opposed to sampled slides, but in context that's usually good enough.

Lol yeah but w/ a piano library at least you're still playing it on keys and I guess as a guitar/bass player I'm too set in my ways to play an electric bass or guitar on keys when I can just play the instruments themselves for that extra credibility. And yet I use amp sims, but I *am* playing a real instrument through them and of course no one has to know..?

Yeah the upright bass will be a prominent part of any song I use it in as for me that's the point of using it so thanks for that tip, I'll probably pass on corebass pear then. I thought Trilian was around $500 but I see it's $279. Idk, maybe. I'm spending too much money lately though in my defence I'm done buying vst instruments - after I get this upright bass and the baritone sax from Vienna. Then I'm done. Actually I'm still gonna buy Mecurrial Spark and the Cerberus and Vermilion from Kuassa and that one Vox ir from Ownhammer and THEN I'm done. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Christian Jones

[bitflipper]

17 hours ago, Christian Jones said:

...and THEN I'm done. 

?Don't forget the new reverbs you're gonna need to go with those. No, the ones you already have won't work.

[Christian Jones]

6 hours ago, bitflipper said:

?Don't forget the new reverbs you're gonna need to go with those. No, the ones you already have won't work.

Man I *know* they won't work, I can tell just by looking at the vanilla gui. 

[Mánibranðr Studios]

Did you forget to move the root key for those groups up an octave with the mappings?

[Christian Jones]

On 9/11/2019 at 3:46 PM, Freyja Grimaude-Valens said:

Did you forget to move the root key for those groups up an octave with the mappings?

 

53 minutes ago, EVINITY said:

the keyboard (not transpose). This is easily done w/ your own sample wav files, but is there just no way to do this for a 3rd party sample library that came pre-mapped? Is the fact that key switches are involved complicating things? I feel like w/ Kontakt as powerful as it is there has top be a way to do this.

Honesty, and not to knock the developer but just being straight up, this Straight Ahead Bass library, though it had good sound it was poorly designed. Pretty much everything was locked down to the keys they predetermined and though I was able to transpose the way Bitflipper suggested, doing so threw the key switches out of whack - they kept moving themselves; each time after I'd engaged one it would move itself back up or down an octave like a practical joke. And every time you engaged a key switch the first couple notes would crackle afterward but then the rest of the notes would play fine (not a buffer issue, as it was only the first couple notes after engaging the key switch). The developer was unresponsive to my emails both directly and through PayPal, so I launched a PayPal dispute and got a refund. Lol they didn't even respond to the dispute so I won by default. I'm looking at Ample Bass now, that one's looking nice and I'll probably get it.