Gig Performer not available through Plugin Alliance anymore (Not a Deal)

[TheMaartian]

4 hours ago, Walter Cruz said:

So... they should never have joined the Plugin Alliance in the first place.

I can tell you for a fact that Deskew agrees with you 100%. I'm not in a position to share the specifics, but Deskew took it in the shorts.

[TheMaartian]

2 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

They charged for version updates.  Unless this new model is lifetime updates I can't fathom that it will have $200 worth of updates during this version release.  

Who is "they"? PA or Deskew? Deskew only charges for major version updates, and that's only every couple of years. They had ZERO control over PA's pricing and discounting of Gig Performer.

[MusicMan]

13 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

I get the feeling they are out of touch with the value they provide to the vast majority of the customer base.

The post also makes no sense suggesting on one hand the product is already rock solid and doesn't need updates while simultaneously telling us we need to pay full retail to get much needed updates and new features.

So far, at my not eligible for crossgrade pricing I purchased it at, I'm still waiting for it to deliver even that much value to me personally let alone paying some crazy fee.

I think they're targeting a niche market which is fine, but unless someone is gigging and touring, a lot of customers are just using it for convenience and novelty.

The PA locked version was good to use, although I could easily replicate anything in Cubase anyway. There's 0% chance I would pay for their full version and I would bet they will lose a lot of customers. 

To put the pricing in perspective, that buys Reaper a full and feature rich DAW that is also stable and you can have it lean for gigs too:

• $60 : discounted license.
  • (Personal OR You are an individual or business using REAPER commercially, and yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000)
• $225 : commercial license.

But with more customers comes more support, so maybe they've done the sums, or just don't want as many customers to deal with, so it still could be the right choice for them individually.. not for me though.. I'll never touch them again ?

Dear Reality on the other hand handled things perfectly in this situation. I wish they had more I wanted and I'd be happy to buy from them again ?

[kitekrazy1]

15 hours ago, Craig Fowler said:

That's...a pretty douchey move. If go into partnership with PA, you *know* that your product is going to get massively discounted. I don't own it, but I'd be pissed if I did!

I look at it this why is they wanted to ride on the coat tails of PA to see how well their products are received.   It's often a way for small developers to reduce some overhead. They basically make one product that serves a small group. It seems though this is short term thinking and made more enemies instead of friends.   Most developers allow for a license for both platforms.  If you want to have it on a Mac and Windows you pay extra. 

 There doesn't seem to be a lot of attention about this policy on the net.  

Cantabile has been around for a long time.  It's the same price. 

Most DAWs have features like this.  I wonder if someone could do the same with VSL VEP.

It's a niche product but if it were an EQ or compressor I could see more getting upset.

I don't think I would want to go anywhere longterm with developers who have strange policies.  They attitude is you need us and we don't need you.

We always need more DAW drama.  This one doesn't garner much attention which probably means not a lot are using it.

[TheSteven]

Not sure why any of this this (Gig Performer/PA stuff) is a surprise to anyone who bought into/purchased the PA version and did at least 10 seconds of research into what they were buying.

 

[Brian Walton]

8 hours ago, John Maar said:

Who is "they"? PA or Deskew? Deskew only charges for major version updates, and that's only every couple of years. They had ZERO control over PA's pricing and discounting of Gig Performer.

They being Deskew.  Given GP was basically the only product ever excluded from every deep discount (outside of loyalty vouchers where you have to spend crazy money to get a $75 voucher), outside a few pricing mistakes along the way there was never an extreme discount (beyond $99) that I recall....so the idea they had zero say is a tough pill.  They must have had some higher kickback requirement otherwise why wouldn't PA be PA ?

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

15 hours ago, John Maar said:

It's a couple of guys who came from IBM Research who happened to be musicians who needed/wanted a better product for hosting instrument and effects VSTs for live use. Gig Performer is the result.

 

15 hours ago, John Maar said:

Working on GP and occasionally touring is all they do. The income from GP pays their bills. I have ZERO issues with paying a fair price for such a useful, high quality product.

Those would be valid concerns....if REAPER wasn't a project which started being developed by one person and now has the massive team composed of...three.

6 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

If you want to have it on a Mac and Windows you pay extra.

That's not a smart move considering they'd be competing against MainStage and...MainStage is 30 bucks.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino

[Infinitum]

Hey people

So... they should never have joined the Plugin Alliance in the first place.
Deskew had that deal before I joined the Gig Performer team, but as far as I can tell - yes, you're right. 

Gig Performer developers are very honest people and their only wish was to have the same pricing for all costumers (except 50% academic discount, for accredited teacher and students). It turned out to be ... quite different ... unfortunately. 

We didn't know anything about the vouchers and stuff, the devs really don't bother with that stuff. In their book, the price is the same. We become aware of this when support tickets arrived and we saw that there are people that bought Gig Performer even at ridiculously low prices (unfortunately). 

So this is now removed: We regret that we are unable to process cross-grades for Plugin Alliance orders that were deeply discounted
... And there is a new announcement: https://gigperformer.com/upgrading-from-pa-discounted-versions.html

From the page: We were unaware that the use of vouchers (also known as virtual dollars) could result in customers being able to buy products for arbitrary amounts, often paying only $20-40 in real dollars with developers receiving only a portion of those real dollars.

We also compiled the FAQ for Plugin Alliance users: https://gigperformer.com/pa-faq.html

I think that somebody mentioned in the comments that only touring musicians use Gig Performer, I can't find that post (maybe it was edited). Anyway, we discovered that Gig Performer was used for many different use cases. This is an interesting article to read: https://gigperformer.com/gig-performer-is-the-best-companion-for-all-your-musical-efforts-and-more/ 

I expected that there will be some negative comments, but we also had many cross-grade tickets and people were very supportive. 

People are very friendly in the Gig Performer forum and all tickets/questions are dealt with care, 90% at the first 20 minutes, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask on any support channel.

[Walter Cruz]

5 hours ago, Infinitum said:

So this is now removed: We regret that we are unable to process cross-grades for Plugin Alliance orders that were deeply discounted

... And there is a new announcement: https://gigperformer.com/upgrading-from-pa-discounted-versions.html

From the page: We were unaware that the use of vouchers (also known as virtual dollars) could result in customers being able to buy products for arbitrary amounts, often paying only $20-40 in real dollars with developers receiving only a portion of those real dollars.

We also compiled the FAQ for Plugin Alliance users: https://gigperformer.com/pa-faq.html

A much better way to handle the situation! Thanks!

[Kiloteq]

I understand they want to set the same price for all customers.
But they want an admin fee for those who purchased at $199 and not for those who purchased at $99.
And they also want a $15 admin fee for those who used a voucher, so again, there is a difference in the amount paid.

And with the past release intervals, the next version will not be far behind.
Upgrades have gotten more expensive over the years, and in the early days, a single $39 and a bundle $49 price would have made sense to crossgrade.
However, the current upgrade fee is $119 (both single and bundle). 

For non-$199 buyers, the crossgrade price plus the upgrade price of $119 is more than the regular price.
Therefore, it may be better to purchase the next version than to force a crossgrade.

[simon]

I've gotta say that this is pretty poor behaviour from Deskew (IMO)

I paid for my licence fair and square - and I used PA voucher codes that I 'earned' by being a regular customer of PA.  It's not MY fault that Deskew signed a bad deal with PA.

Additionally now they are asking me to buy a FULL PRICE licence and then to put a ticket in to get a partial refund......possibly ?

also: An admin fee ! WTF !? where's the 'admin' and how much time does that take.

The 'compelling' reasons are not reasons to pay TWICE !    I'm sure the developers are great people but this move totally stinks - hey, some of us are nice people too, we just don't like being milked.

FWIW can't see the downloads on the PA website anymore - are we outta luck if we need to reinstall ?

 

 

[simon]

6 hours ago, Infinitum said:

We didn't know anything about the vouchers

what ?  I call bullsh1t on that

^^^  from 3 years ago

Edited June 14, 2023 by simon

[kitekrazy1]

LOL.  With the latest news their move makes more sense now

[dumbquestions]

1 hour ago, simon said:

 

FWIW can't see the downloads on the PA website anymore - are we outta luck if we need to reinstall ?

 

 

Still there for me (menu > your account > manage your licenses)

Edited June 14, 2023 by dumbquestions

[Grem]

On 6/12/2023 at 7:23 PM, Craig Fowler said:

That's...a pretty douchey move.

Yep

On 6/12/2023 at 7:23 PM, Craig Fowler said:

go into partnership with PA, you *know* that your product is going to get massively discounted

Correct. And you know (and are counting on, new customers. Read: money coming in/exposure) that going in. It's your plan.

On 6/12/2023 at 7:23 PM, Craig Fowler said:

I don't own it, but I'd be pissed if I did!

Exactly.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 6:44 PM, Anxiousmofo said:

Clearly a company to avoid. 

That's my thoughts.

[David Jameson]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:02 AM, Brian Walton said:

They charged for version updates.  Unless this new model is lifetime updates I can't fathom that it will have $200 worth of updates during this version release.  

While the next 4.x update will in fact have a slew of new features (several new plugins and numerous other updates that we will preannounce soon), it will in fact be a free update to all Deskew  Customers who purchased Gig Performer 4 at the retail price. PA customers who bought at full price will also be able to cross-grade for a minor admin fee. That is part of the value of our product and one of the reasons we don't discount.

Whether the update is worth the price to users who purchased GP at discount is a different matter.  As has been noted by others, the current PA 4.58 will continue to work (unless of course some future OS update breaks it) so casual users who don't need the new features can stay with the current version as long as they wish.

[David Jameson]

Just now, Grem said:

go into partnership with PA, you *know* that your product is going to get massively discounted

Actually we had absolutely no idea that GP would be massively discounted -- we expected that there would be occasional price drops of $10/15. We know there is a race to zero when it comes to plugins (how many reverbs, compressors, phasers, EQs do people actually need) but there are only a few decent live performance hosts out there.

It was a complete surprise to us.  Obviously OUR mistake and we recognize and accept that.

That said,  we are now separated from them and excited to move forward on our own. We have an awesome new update coming in the next few months (sneak peaks will start appearing soon) and people can decide for themselves whether it's worth moving over or not. 

 

[Grem]

 

 

15 minutes ago, David Jameson said:

It was a complete surprise to us.  Obviously OUR mistake and we recognize and accept that.

Reading the above screen shot, and then reading your recent post, you do understand how what your saying now is hard to swallow?

 

To be clear, I am not a user of GP. I have looked at it seriously many times. It was brought to my attention by the PA sales. Left on it's own, I may have never heard of GP.  Exposure. Lots of it. That is what you got from the PA deal. That's fact.

I may be wrong, but I think that played a big part in the decision to join PA.

I wish you and your company no ill will. But expect people who bought from PA to be a little miffed. That's another fact.

 

[Grem]

How is the gang over at KRV handling this!!? ?

[simon]

1 hour ago, dumbquestions said:

Still there for me (menu > your account > manage your licenses)

thanks - wasn't logged in

50 minutes ago, Grem said:

But expect people who bought from PA to be a little miffed.

I certainly am - especially now that Deskew trying to 'spin' it as they are doing us a favour.....and still adding on mystery admin fees too - and all the time cllaiming to know nothing about how PA actually does business.

FWIW it hasn't been updated for over a year.

1 hour ago, David Jameson said:

Obviously OUR mistake and we recognize and accept that.

your mistake and yet your customers have to pay for it - classy move - and nice bit of 'double dipping'.  "buy once - pay twice"

You say: "Own The Stage"  - well it turns out we don't even own our software