Problem with Timeworks EQ Plugin

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Having problems with the Timeworks EQ plugin. I've used it for years and still love this EQ. I'm using the 64 bit versions (the MONO and the STEREO plugins). It's working fine in all but 2 of my projects, which have been converted from Sonar 8.5 projects into Cakewalk Bandlab versions. 

I have had freezing/crashing problems with 2 particular projects. I've narrowed the problem down to the Timeworks  Mono EQ (the Stereo one seems to work okay). 

If I open an existing project, everything is fine. I can plug in a new instance of the Timeworks EQ and it works. But in this PARTICULAR project, it doesn't. I have created a new blank project, then copy/pasted the  audio tracks into it. The problem starts up again. Those tracks have the same FX, automation, etc, so I'm figuring there's a glitch in the original project that's being copied over. 

But now, if I create a NEW project, the problem persists. I start with a blank project.... no tracks, no busses. I insert an audio track, press "Play", and it's fine. I insert the Mono EQ on that track and it freezes. I have reinstalled the EQ plugins but that hasn't made a difference. 

So, I reckon it's something with the way my Cakewalk workspace is set up, that's interfering with that particular plugin. I'm out of ideas. 

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Here are pics of the Plugin Manager, with reference to the file used. The other one is a snapshot of my plugins folder, with all of the Timeworks files there. I don't know if there are other references/files in AppData, or anywhere else on the computer. 

 

[Glenn Stanton]

so - you are using the timeworks plugins on other projects ok? and only two had the issue. if you insert a new track in a new project and add the mono version, it crashes - is the track a stereo track? sometimes older (and unsupported) plugins don't like stereo when its expecting mono. 

just noticed you're using jbridge - on a dx effect?

one thing i've been doing on some older projects (like 8.5) is document all the effects and export all the tracks as WAV and import the WAV into a wholly new CbB project. then if the tracks are using a plugin which i cannot install or otherwise use, i'll recreate the effects in newer effects as much as possible. or listen to the older tracks to see if i can recreate it (mostly this happens with the revalver amp that i cannot open anymore). delays. eq. reverbs. modulations etc are all pretty straightforward to recreate, like the lexicon reverb i no longer have installed - so i use my slate reverbs to re-do)

Edited April 29, 2023 by Glenn Stanton

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Thanks, Glenn. 

Yep, I tried importing the audio into a new, blank project. It seems now, that I can't even create a new project without the Timeworks EQ crashing it. So I reckon something changed in my BANDLAB setup, because my existing projects (Bandlab) all work fine with the Timeworks EQ. If it were any other plugin, I'd probably just find a substitute and move on. But I love this EQ. They did upgrade to 64 bit a few years back, though it's still a VST and not a VST3.

And again, the STEREO version is working fine. I have, literally, hundreds of presets for the Mono EQ that I've programmed over the years, and it's so simple and transparent that I really don't want to move to a different one. And it's working fine in Sonar 8.5, and it's working fine in existing Cakewalk Bandlab projects. Could something in my setup... workspace, Mix Scenes, etc, somehow cause this? I use a single workspace for all the projects. I don't really use Mix Scenes, but I'll troubleshoot that. Thanks again. 

 

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

As an update, I did create a MiniDump file and sent it to the Cakewalk folks. Waiting to hear from them. 

--je

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Still racking my brain, trying to figure this one out. Have deleted the original DLL file for the MONO EQ, then did a reset and scan of all my plugins. Reinstalled that DLL from a backup source. Still no go. The project loads and plays fine, but as soon as I install an instance of the Timeworks MONO EQ, it freezes. I can install any other plugins, including the Stereo EQ, and it's fine.  I can install and uninstall the MONO EQ in other projects and it's fine. But this one is bugging me.  I have deleted all instances of it from the project. I have recreated this project from scratch, starting with a completely blank project. 

When I removed all instances of the EQ it did leave behind 2 orphaned envelopes on a guitar track, and I wasn't able to click on them to delete them. They weren't referenced in the track's edit filter, but they showed on the track and in the automation lane. I thought they might be the cause, so I created a new track and copied only the audio to it, then deleted it. But with the new track in place, it still behaves the same way. I have bounced every track to clips, as well. 

I'm thinking it might be an artifact, maybe a Registry entry that affects only this particular project and any other new ones I create. I searched the Registry and found several instances of the MONO EQ, but didn't want to mess with them until I know what I'm doing there.

I tried a reinstall of Cakewalk, but it wants me to uninstall the old one first. I'm not sure if I'll lose any of my projects or not, so I'll wait for that. I'm about 3/4's through an album mix and I'm hoping the a reinstall of CW might fix the problem.

Will uninstalling Cakewalk remove my existing projects and folders? I'm guessing not, but I'm not taking any chances [grin]. Thanks. 

--je

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

@Glenn: I just noticed your comment about the jBridge. That's leftover from the old 32 bit version. I've removed it from the folder, but it makes no difference. In Windows Task Mgr, I see that Cakewalk launches Bitbridge.exe when it opens. 

Also, when I install an instance of the EQ, the plugin pops up on screen instantly. I am able to manipulate all the EQ nodes, open presets and save them, and basically use the plugin itself without a problem. It's only when I press PLAY that the program freezes. 

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Further update: 

I have now completely uninstalled and reinstalled Cakewalk. Still having the same problem. It's this one pesky EQ plugin. Should I be looking into the Registry? Maybe delete all references to it, then reinstall it in CW? I get nervous about messing around with the Registry.

 

[Glenn Stanton]

it may be wise to uninstall the plugin, backup the presets folder if it has one, then check if any left over registry entries and remove those. then install it fresh.

if it still crashes, you should also follow the steps to get a crash dump and provide to the support team so they can look into it as well. 

 

[57Gregy]

As mentioned above, are you inserting this mono effect in a stereo track?

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

@Glenn: there's no real way to "uninstall" the Timeworks plugin. Like a lot of them, you simply put the DLL file into your Plugins folder and have CW Plugin Manager scan for it. It doesn't seem to remove anything from the Registry. I did remove it, then loaded the project and all was fine. Of course, I couldn't try to insert an instance of it, which is the thing that freezes the program. Actually, INSERTING an instance doesn't freeze the program.... pressing "PLAY" afterwards does.  And yes, I did send a dump file to the techs at Bandlab. They sent a note telling me they're working on it. Thanks. 

@ 57Gregy: No, only on MONO tracks. I use the Stereo version of the plugin for busses and stereo tracks, and it seems to work fine. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by John Egenes

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

UPDATE:

I backed up the Windows Registry and then deleted every reference to "Timeworks". There were a lot of them, but most were pointing to an old "Sonic Timeworks" folder that no longer exists. After deleting all references, I rebooted the computer. 

I copied the Timeworks EQ files back into the VST folder, then launched Cakewalk and did a Reset/Rescan All Plugins. 

I had high hopes, but they were dashed.... Still has the freezing problem. I zipped the affected project, along with another project that doesn't have this problem. I also zipped a copy of the folder that the Timeworks VSTs are in. I sent them all to the Cakewalk techs, in hopes that maybe they can see something I can't.

It still amazes me, how much trouble I will go to, just to try to keep using a piece of software that I really like. In this case, I am very strongly vested in the Timeworks EQ's, both Mono and Stereo, and have them installed on literally hundreds of songs, and thousands of tracks. If it were a matter of, "oh well... the plugin just won't run on new software...", then I'd be okay with that. But it DOES run just fine in other Cakewalk Bandlab projects. Oh well.... time to go get a coffee, I reckon. 

[Glenn Stanton]

as a note: i've using the Waves API 500 series EQ plugins in lieu of the timeworks EQ that i used on older projects as i found they seem to have a similar effect that i was looking for (my normal go-tos like the PC eq, fabfilter, etc just didn't quite get there - like bell-like resonance). possibly that was just bad coding or original defects in the HW that the Wave folks copied.... lol ?

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

I just reinstalled my video drivers (NVIDIA Quadro FX 1800, with dual monitors). Have been reading various threads from a while back, talking about OpenGL issues with video drivers. So, I figured I'd give it a shot. No dice. Still hanging on that one plugin. It's still bugging me, why it works in some sessions with CW Bandlab, and freezes in others.

If I load the Stereo version, the plugin pops up instantly, ready to go.

But when I load the Mono version, it hesitates for a split second (less than a second, but a noticably delay). When it pops up, it has a blank white face for another split second, then loads. 

Once loaded, I can alter its settings, call up a new preset, save a preset, etc. It works okay. But as soon as I press PLAY, everything freezes up. If I load the plugin, then immediately delete it, it still freezes when I press PLAY. So it's the INSERTING of the plugin that's doing the damage. This is a 64 bit VST2 plugin, so I'm guessing it does not use a Bitbridge, no? Bitbridge does launch in the background when I open CW, but that might be because of all the plugins listed in the Plugin Manager. I don't really know. 

Here's hoping the techs will come up with something. I use EQ more than all other plugins combined, so I really hate to let go of this particular one. 

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

Just bumping this thread. No real change, but I have made a VERY small step forward. I renamed the CW library file (from "library.db" to "library.old"), which created a new database file when I launched Cakewalk again. Now, when I load the Timeworks MONO EQ, it still locks up the program when I press "PLAY", but it allows me to use my mouse a little. I am able to click the plugin's On/Off icon and turn it off. When I do this, the program runs okay again. When I switch the EQ back on, it locks up. If I delete the plugin from the track, the program is fine. This wasn't the case before. Once locked up, the program just froze and I had to force it to close. 
So now, at least I can load the plugin, but I can't actually turn it on. So, I reckon I've made a small bit of progress. Still thinking it's a corrupt database or log file somewhere that's causing the problem, but I have no idea where that might be.

Still haven't heard anything from the CW techs about this. Have more or less exhausted my feeble brain. Have reverted to Sonar 8.5 for the time being, but would really like to get the new Cakewalk up and running--WITH the Timeworks EQ-- if I can. I still have high hopes for it!    --je

[Jean]

Have you tried combinations of:

Mono track with stereo interleave on.

Mono track with stereo interleave off.

If you have a mono track with the stereo interleave button switched on it may confuse the mono plugin?

Alternatively, try the stereo version of the plugin on a mono track with the stereo interleave on?

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

@Jean: Good suggestions, and yes, I've tried those things. It's the plugin itself, and not how it's used. I can use the Stereo version, but I have hundreds of presets I've created over many years, and they're all for the MONO version. They won't just port directly over to the Stereo one, even though the controls/settings are exactly the same (just my luck...). I wish there was a way I could get inside the plugin's code and write a script that would transfer the Mono's settings to the Stereo version. If I could, I'd just do that and be done with it [grin]. I don't even need to use a mono audio track with stereo interleave. The stereo plugin works fine on a mono track. Oh well...

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by John Egenes

[bitflipper]

Unfortunately, the dump file may not contain any information that'll be useful to the Cakewalk support people. A dump is just a raw snapshot of what was happening at the time of the crash/hang. It will identify which module was in play, but little else without a symbol map to correlate addresses to parts of the code being executed. Said symbols are only going to be available to the developers of the plugin, not to third parties such as DAW vendors. This why when a plugin fails you usually have to contact the original developers for help.

There have been cases in the past where the issue wasn't technically a bug in the plugin, but rather in the way it interacted with the host. There have been cases in the past where Noel & Co. were able to code a workaround that avoided the problem. But these are exceptions to the norm. Usually, only the original coders can address the problem. Somebody can correct me if they know otherwise, but it seems Sonic Timeworks is defunct.

Which is a longwinded way of saying you're probably out of luck. I know, it can be aggravating to have to let go of a favorite plugin. I was unhappy when Kjaerhus abruptly vaporized. iirc, that developer had also created at least one of the Sonar plugins that had to die as well. It's a fact of life that specialty software companies generally do not enjoy long lives. Cakewalk's own longevity is an anomaly, and even its doors were shuttered for awhile.

 

[johnegenes@gmail.com]

@bitflipper:  yeah, I hear you. I've certainly abandoned many pieces of software, including DAW plugins, over the years. The only reason I'm hanging onto this one so hard is because it works in other CW versions, just prior to this one. Also, it still works in SOME of the projects I've ported over to this version, from Sonar 8.5, Platinum, and X2, which is why it's so frustrating. I haven't been able to pinpoint what's different about the various projects, just that some of them work in CWBandlab, and some don't.

The techs at CW are working on it, and I've sent them a copy of the plugin's install files, so maybe they can get a handle on it. We'll see. Trying to finish mixing 2 albums, which I was hoping to do in CW Bandlab, but have decided to stick with Sonar 8.5 for them. Hopefully, all will work out. If not, I'll be taking a closer look at the pile of EQ plugins I already have, and at others, as replacements. Thanks.   --je