Need sampler

[abacab]

4 hours ago, Cookie Jarvis said:

I have a sampler built into my Kurzweil(K2500XS)...used it to sample my drumkit...never had a use for it again. I use Kontakt in software now but don't sample any more though I'm thinking about creating my own instruments one of these days ?

Bill

I believe that the sampler workflow being referred to here is not related to building actual real  instruments, although you could do that.

For example with an integrated sampler, such as PreSonus  Sample One XT instrument  in Studio One v4. I saw a cool video where you could use a method of gate recording that would start recording a new wave slice sequentially every time it detected a new note being played. In other words, you could play a scale and each time a note is played a new recording is started. This provides for a wave sample for each note you played, which automatically maps those notes across the keyboard. This example shows a bass guitar being sampled into Sample One XT.

Studio One 4 Sampling A New Instrument In Sample One XT

But I believe the original request here is  actually regarding another technique of sampling sounds within a DAW and then slicing them up, to prepare them for use in a drum sampler or groove box type of setup. That allows one to  trigger those sample slices with a percussion style step sequencer, or use them to improvise or play them in real time with a button style controller like a Novation Launchpad. Often used for making beats and grooves. It is also helpful to have a sampler UI with a matrix style (MPC) pad layout for this, such as Impact XT.

Here is tutorial for the Impact XT drum sampler in Studio One 4:

Studio One 4 | Impact XT Tips & Tricks | Faster Workflow

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by abacab

[TheSteven]

If you wanted to create you own multi sample instrument with multi-velocity layering and round robins you could use
SFZ Designer http://mildon.me/sfzdesigner to create it

and use sforzando for the VST playback engine.
https://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando.html

While not as simple as a builtin drag'n'drop sample player if you're looking to create something with more depth / versatility and don't want to use Kontakt it's a viable option. And it's free.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by TheSteven

[abacab]

44 minutes ago, TheSteven said:

If you wanted to create you own multi sample instrument with multi-velocity layering and round robins you could use
SFZ Designer http://mildon.me/sfzdesigner to create it

and use sforzando for the VST playback engine.
https://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando.html

While not as simple as a builtin drag'n'drop sample player if you're looking to create something with more depth / versatility and don't want to use Kontakt it's a viable option. And it's free.

Nice, but not that handy for just making some quick beats with. I think that is what folks have been asking about for years now. Cakewalk is still pretty sterile in that regard. Disclaimer: I also own Ableton Live and Studio One.

PreSonus finally gave in with their v4 upgrade, and added  some workflow tools for the electronic producer crowd. The upgrade received the expected flames from the more  traditional DAW users. But I think that today's young aspiring  customers are expecting to be able to use a DAW to easily make modern music with.

I can find other uses for these sampling tools if they give them to me, so I'm all for it.

Edited February 23, 2019 by abacab

[abacab]

Here's another good example of an integrated sampler in a DAW.

This is a quick video overview of the Multi Sampler included with Tracktion Waveform. It's a general purpose sampler, that can live record from any audio source in the computer, or you can  drag and drop your own samples. It has beat detection so you can  automatically detect transients in a recording, which allows you to quickly   isolate and slice up individual hits and map their samples to different MIDI notes from your controller,  or  from MIDI clips in your track.

Jump to 8:00 to see the beat detection and slicing in action.

Parts 1-3 are available in the playlist at this link > 01 Introduction to Waveform Multi Sampler

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by abacab

[kitekrazy]

UVI Workstation is an underrated sampler.

[abacab]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

UVI Workstation is an underrated sampler.

That is just a sample instrument  player. You would need Falcon to load samples.

https://support.uvi.net/hc/en-us/articles/115005611265-Can-I-import-custom-samples-into-UVI-soundbanks-

Edited February 28, 2019 by abacab

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, abacab said:

That is just a sample instrument  player. You would need Falcon to load samples.

https://support.uvi.net/hc/en-us/articles/115005611265-Can-I-import-custom-samples-into-UVI-soundbanks-

Version 2 will.

[Misha]

 A basic sampler might be good idea, +1,  

but I think 3d party stuff will always be better,  just because developers of that soft been working on things for some time now. What about Halion or Kontakt? They do have samplers that can do pretty complex stuff. 

 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 3/29/2019 at 1:44 AM, Misha said:

but I think 3d party stuff will always be better,  just because developers of that soft been working on things for some time now. What about Halion or Kontakt? They do have samplers that can do pretty complex stuff. 

 

Not the same thing ..need something fast and deeply integrated

[puddy]

On 3/29/2019 at 3:44 AM, Misha said:

 A basic sampler might be good idea, +1,  

but I think 3d party stuff will always be better,  just because developers of that soft been working on things for some time now. What about Halion or Kontakt? They do have samplers that can do pretty complex stuff. 

 

But why do  you feel like it should be basic?

And a third party stuff should not be cast on stone that it will work better.

The main crippling element to the development of the DAW will be people who negate posted requests, especially primarily because there is a third  party VST doing a similar job, or people living in the past not wanting obvious things to go for a change (yes there is nothing wrong with using one DAW  and all its capabilities for your work)... I've seen a post regarding upgrading of Sonitus GUI plugins being reduced to nothing... Yes they would do with a rework and please don't compare them to reaper ones because that is REAPER and can stay with such. A post regarding Cakewalk GUI-reworking suffered the same fate... YES obviously Cakewalk GUI needs to be modernised!!, nothing necessarily wrong with Cakewalk GUI layout, the original Tungsten and especially Mercury are clean and professional but there is no denying (at least to me, others I have seen FR from and probably some new users seeing the DAW for the first time) that they look OLD. It is up to the Cakewalk developers and Owners to decide whether a suggestion  (FR) is needed as they are also people and can see what's happening around them, with regards to the DAW world I mean. Surely the owner of Cakewalk cannot have resuscitated this DAW only for the benefit of the '10000' loyal users, as I have an understanding that his main objective is to provide access for music making to everyone, including beginners like me.

[abacab]

I think it is a good thing to get feature request ideas out there, and on a wish-list for future development.

But my observations are that Cakewalk development is currently in a bug fix cycle to make the existing program and features more stable, and working as advertised. For years the company was pushed to market and release new features frequently, to keep sales rolling.

That pressure is off the table for now, and it is a good time for the developers to focus their available resources on product stability. When it is time to consider the development of new features, I am sure they will be listening to the community.

[puddy]

Thank you so much Abacab for your reply which is well thought and structured.

I agree fully with what you are saying...

I have been lurking in the forum since the announcement of Cakewalk return and it being free (to my delight?). Though I will not have anything to compare it to as I have not made any research, but I think on the stability side I can safely say that Cakewalk is on par with other DAWs if not on the leading pack in this regard, judging from the work that has been done since the announcement. Yes there still are glitches ( for an example, testing the elastique feature, no matter how far I stretch,  the result will be an audio with crackling sound, something I haven't seen anyone complaining about, so for now I'm trying to see if there's nothing wrong I'm doing on my side).

Back to the topic, I feel like the bug fixing and new feature implementation could be balanced somehow. In fact what seems bad to me is seeing feature requests being killed by other forum users.

PS: The latter paragraph in my initial reply to your post was not necessarily directed to you.

 

Thanks

[Misha]

CosmicDolphin, can you please explain what you mean by:

"need something fast and deeply integrated" ... How is Kontakt or Halion VST's are less integrated or "not fast".  Sorry if I sound silly, I am a learner and always hungry for new info.

Puddy... 

I think you changed the subject a bit from requesting for sampler to a much wider request.  Here is my take. If you walk into a bakery and request a cheeseburger... even if they make one on "special request" I do not think it will be a magical moment for the taste buds.  And of course wise versa,  if you walk into a burger joint and request a cannoli, I do not believe that would be worth spending money on.

I tried whole bunch of DAWs. I always came back to Cakewalk. I love it dearly for the workflow, tracking, touch navigation, excellent forum   etc.  I guess it is closely related to the type of music I tinker with ... But at the same time I do not believe a DAW (any DAW) should be a Jack of all trades. I think Meng and Bakers took the right path by fixing things that were long due and polishing it,  instead of rolling out completely new features without addressing stability issues. 

Again, I am all in for sampler +rompler+ tone generator and preferably that would have a full GM2 and other synths maps, that would eat SFz / SF2 / WAV, etc. formats.    TTS1 is loooong due for overhaul... but for now, I wish to Meng and crew all the best, and to continue their great work in supporting the best free DAW that exists in the world today, giving a chance to people of all social strata to create music professionally.

 

 

[puddy]

3 minutes ago, Misha said:

CosmicDolphin, can you please explain what you mean by:

"need something fast and deeply integrated" ... How is Kontakt or Halion VST's are less integrated or "not fast".  Sorry if I sound silly, I am a learner and always hungry for new info.

Puddy... 

I think you changed the subject a bit from requesting for sampler to a much wider request.  Here is my take. If you walk into a bakery and request a cheeseburger... even if they make one on "special request" I do not think it will be a magical moment for the taste buds.  And of course wise versa,  if you walk into a burger joint and request a cannoli, I do not believe that would be worth spending money on.

I tried whole bunch of DAWs. I always came back to Cakewalk. I love it dearly for the workflow, tracking, touch navigation, excellent forum   etc.  I guess it is closely related to the type of music I tinker with ... But at the same time I do not believe a DAW (any DAW) should be a Jack of all trades. I think Meng and Bakers took the right path by fixing things that were long due and polishing it,  instead of rolling out completely new features without addressing stability issues. 

Again, I am all in for sampler +rompler+ tone generator and preferably that would have a full GM2 and other synths maps, that would eat SFz / SF2 / WAV, etc. formats.    TTS1 is loooong due for overhaul... but for now, I wish to Meng and crew all the best, and to continue their great work in supporting the best free DAW that exists in the world today, giving a chance to people of all social strata to create music professionally.

 

 

The main I idea to my post/reply was to support the sampler request (in fact, plus any other request that the developers may see the need/ capability of implementing).

No, I have not changed the sampler request to a wider FR but just stated my observation on how other forum users kill other's valid requests because they themselves don't see their need. There is no reason why a DAW should not have a feature/s that other modern DAWs have unless the developers/Owners deem that those specific features can not be implemented because of whatever reason.

Your analogy of Jack of all trades is not really correct, as you have correctly stated, one of the objectives is "

giving a chance to people of all social strata to create music professionally", how will this be possible if the software only caters for the type of music that tinkers with you??

The requirement is not for the company to come up with out of this world features , but things that modern musicians would come to expect in a DAW, surely if this can be afforded, if not, then it's still fine, but there's no need for forum users to kill other user's requests because requests are open to anyone using the DAW.

[msmcleod]

4 minutes ago, puddy said:

The main I idea to my post/reply was to support the sampler request (in fact, plus any other request that the developers may see the need/ capability of implementing).

No, I have not changed the sampler request to a wider FR but just stated my observation on how other forum users kill other's valid requests because they themselves don't see their need. There is no reason why a DAW should not have a feature/s that other modern DAWs have unless the developers/Owners deem that those specific features can not be implemented because of whatever reason.

Your analogy of Jack of all trades is not really correct, as you have correctly stated, one of the objectives is "

giving a chance to people of all social strata to create music professionally", how will this be possible if the software only caters for the type of music that tinkers with you??

The requirement is not for the company to come up with out of this world features , but things that modern musicians would come to expect in a DAW, surely if this can be afforded, if not, then it's still fine, but there's no need for forum users to kill other user's requests because requests are open to anyone using the DAW.

I guess quite a few of us are still feeling burned by the events of Nov 2017. The Cakewalk development team is now far smaller than it was, and a lot of us are keen to see them focus on fixing some of the long overdue bugs, rather than work on what would be a quite large new feature.

But I totally agree with your sentiments here. No one should be shot down for making a perfectly valid feature request.

[puddy]

8 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

I guess quite a few of us are still feeling burned by the events of Nov 2017. The Cakewalk development team is now far smaller than it was, and a lot of us are keen to see them focus on fixing some of the long overdue bugs, rather than work on what would be a quite large new feature.

But I totally agree with your sentiments here. No one should be shot down for making a perfectly valid feature request.

Sure thanks Msmcleod, the feeling of being burned from the mentioned events has been evident, which I guess is natural...

[abacab]

1 hour ago, Misha said:

CosmicDolphin, can you please explain what you mean by:

"need something fast and deeply integrated" ... How is Kontakt or Halion VST's are less integrated or "not fast".  Sorry if I sound silly, I am a learner and always hungry for new info.

For an answer to that question you can just scroll up the page a bit to where I previously posted video examples of "fast and deeply integrated" samplers in two other DAWs. Specifically Sample One XT in Studio One, and Multi Sampler in Tracktion Waveform.

There are also similar and perhaps better known examples such as NN-XT in Propellerheads Reason, and Simpler and Sampler in Ableton Live.

 

 

[Misha]

Puddy,  you might just overlooked...

In case you did:

"Again, I am all in for sampler +rompler+ tone generator and preferably that would have a full GM2 and other synths maps, that would eat SFz / SF2 / WAV, etc. formats.    TTS1 is loooong due for overhaul..."

I hope that explains my position.  

abacab,

Thanks, interesting videos.  Cool stuff.  Sure, seems more robust than some 3rd party VSTs, but at the same time they would lack many things that 3rd party would offer.  Every software title  has some unique features. I am sure if Cakewalk would give a birth to sampler, it will have some unique features too. 

 

[abacab]

2 hours ago, Misha said:

abacab,

Thanks, interesting videos.  Cool stuff.  Sure, seems more robust than some 3rd party VSTs, but at the same time they would lack many things that 3rd party would offer.  Every software title  has some unique features. I am sure if Cakewalk would give a birth to sampler, it will have some unique features too.

And if the Cakewalk by Bandlab devs ever do get around to adding major new features (such as samplers), they will probably need to adjust to how the younger generation is creating music today. Guitars and other real instruments are still cool, but electronic music seems to be the dominant market force now for computer based music.

I'm old school, but I have always worked mostly with MIDI instruments (both external hardware & virtual instruments) on the computer.  I have been a fan of electronic music since the dawn of electronic music, decades ago. So now I am all for anything that opens new paths for musical creativity.

I noticed last year that when PreSonus released a major update to Studio One (v4), there were a lot of flames on their forum about the new features that seemed to mostly cater to the electronic music crowd. The traditional musicians there were put off by the major focus on sampling, drum pattern sequencing, and chord tracks that appeared to be the heart of the new features offered in the new release. But the company seems to pay close attention to their feature requests and try to deliver what the majority of users want, when they can.

Hopefully BandLab will listen as well. But don't expect everybody to be happy with the decisions that get made.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by abacab

[Misha]

abacab, I believe we seeing things differently.

I think the beauty and a muscle  of Cakewalk that things are modular. You can use what you need, resize what you need, display what you need. Sure new features! Yes for sampler! (Hopefully with GM2  on-board)

But what you said here, I can not agree with:

"Guitars and other real instruments are still cool, but electronic music seems to be the dominant market force now for computer based music."

 I strongly hope that Cakewalk would not become "tuned"  for specific targeted group of beat "makers" or for any other "group" of music makers.  It should be flexible and modular, to accommodate wide spectrum of artists of ALL genres.