abacab Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Impact XT/SampleOne XT are locked to Studio One, so even if you have that program they are not VSTs that you can use elsewhere, such as in Cakewalk. But that seems to be the trend with integrated sampling in other DAWs as well, so there must be an advantage to integrating the sampling with the DAW, rather than as a VST plugin. The ease of live sampling your real or virtual instrument tracks comes to mind. Studio One also beefed up their pattern/step sequencer as well. https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/patterns-impact-xt-studio-one-4 It would be cool if Cakewalk could update/replace the Matrix View with something more functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 yea samplers aren't really my thing. I do use Session drummer for triggering samples, but a stand alone aint going to help my productivity. With that said, I would love to see a sampler with Cakewalk. Imagine the features, the design. it could be a great hit with its users. So I would love to see a sampler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user 905133 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Chuck E Baby said: With that said, I would love to see a sampler with Cakewalk. Imagine the features, the design. it could be a great hit with its users. So I would love to see a sampler. I believe E-Mu's Emulator X (the software version of their Ultra line of hardware samplers) has long been abandoned. Maybe the good people at BandLab could offer to buy it at a bargain price, update it, and integrate into Cakewalk. Just wondering out loud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 hours ago, abacab said: t would be cool if Cakewalk could update/replace the Matrix View with something more functional. I agree and I keep hoping it gets some long over due love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve Ripper Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, abacab said: It would be cool if Cakewalk could update/replace the Matrix View with something more functional. I would like to see something like PROJECT5 was. It was before Live and Bitwig become kings in clip launchers. Edited September 24, 2019 by Eve Ripper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Eve Ripper said: I would like to see something like PROJECT5 was. It was before Live and Bitwig become kings in clip launchers. I agree. The workflow just seems so much more intuitive in P5. The Groove Matrix was added to P5 v2. https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/cakewalk-project-5-v2 The Matrix View was Cakewalk's attempt at migrating the P5 Groove Matrix to Sonar after they killed P5. It first appeared in Sonar 8.5. https://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/cakewalk-sonar-8-5-unveiled-220001 Here are a couple of Matrix View articles from SOS written by Craig Anderton: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/sonar-matrix-magic https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/sonar-matrix-reloaded 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois van der Merwe Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) I recently read how few millennials can afford big houses in the US and around the world. These folks can't host a traditional band with drums, physical instruments, big amps and such in their homes. Thus a lot of new music are electronic computer made music, made by one man bands using synths, drum plugins, loops, sampling and step sequencers. This is why FLstudio is the most popular DAW in the world at the moment as polled by Music Radar. I really hope CbB can create some kind of parity with this types of DAW's. This would increase CbB's user base by a massive amount. But I understand if CbB want to focus on audio at the moment. One step at a time. Edited September 25, 2019 by Francois van der Merwe Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) On 9/25/2019 at 9:11 AM, Francois van der Merwe said: I recently read how few millennials can afford big houses in the US and around the world. These folks can't host a traditional band with drums, physical instruments, big amps and such in their homes. Thus a lot of new music are electronic computer made music, made by one man bands using synths, drum plugins, loops, sampling and step sequencers. This is why FLstudio is the most popular DAW in the world at the moment as polled by Music Radar. I really hope CbB can create some kind of parity with this types of DAW's. This would increase CbB's user base by a massive amount. But I understand if CbB want to focus on audio at the moment. One step at a time. FL Studio is used by a few professional orchestral composers who have work in big name movies or video game franchises. It has features far beyond just arranging loops and working with Synths (stuff that any DAW can do). It's a DAW on par with the likes of Logic Pro X, and that's why a lot of people gravitate towards it. It's great at a lot of things, has some amazing workflow features (i.e. Articulation Management), and has a good content bundle for upstarts who just want to buy and get to work with. If your work is audio-heavy, then there are better DAWs than both FL Studio and Cakewalk for that - like Pro Tools or Samplitude Pro. For MIDI and Orchestral Composition, it's hard to compete with Cubase, Logic Pro X, or FL Studio with Cakewalk. Most people can't afford big houses, regardless of what "generation" they belong to... and even fewer can afford to put a suitable recording studio in their house. I think the reliance on 3rd party content bundles was great when Gibson owned SONAR, but set it back a little when they sold it off. The development seemed to stagnate, and they focused heavily on those additions to sell the product. This was great when they had it, and those things existed... but when BandLab got it, the DAW then had to compete with just the base software. From that angle, it isn't as strong. They probably had trouble selling the product because of this. Most other DAW companies developed most of their plug-ins, Instruments, Samplers in-house (or simply gobbled up a company to do it for them). SONAR never really did this to the extent companies like Avid, Apple, Image-Line, MAGIX, or even Sony did... Price is a decreasingly important selling point, due to the constant promotions and existence of cross grade choices in the DAW market. Also, the cost of your DAW is a small fraction of what you have to pay to product music; and even "millennials" are clued in to this. Achieving Feature parity would definitely increase the user base by a massive amount. However, that is easier said than done. Competitors like Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic, and FL Studio (and even Digital Performer) basically have a 5-6 year head start on SONAR by virtue of how aggressively they are developed... and they are not going to stand still while any competitor just freely catches up to them. And even if you get feature parity, you'll still have to pay almost as much as those DAWs just to be able to sell upstarts an attractive package (otherwise they have to start piecing together cheap third party content - much of which is worse than what DAWs are bundling, these days). I think Cakewalk can become a sort of GarageBand for Windows, though MixCraft seems to be occupying that niche, at the moment; and their prices are hard to compete with, even when Cakewalk is free. Edited October 4, 2019 by Some Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I think that the core CbB, along with the 3rd party free content available today, far surpasses the DAW + bundled content that was available 10 years ago in any single package... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francois van der Merwe Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just want to mention that I really appreciate BandLabs direction to make CakeWalk a super stable host first. That is the most important thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 12 hours ago, abacab said: I think that the core CbB, along with the 3rd party free content available today, far surpasses the DAW + bundled content that was available 10 years ago in any single package... You can think that, but 10 years ago Pro Tools was bundling most of AIR's stuff, which is still better than 98.6% of "free stuff" on the internet. So, I completely disagree. And this comparison is just... laughable. No one in their late teens/twenties, looking for a DAW in late 2019, is going to care how a free DAW and some free stuff compares to a 10-year old version of another DAW. Free stuff is generally mediocre, especially in the realm of sampler instruments and non-synth VSTis. They may be fine for you, if you're willing to completely throw quality out of the water. But the Kontakt/Halion factory instruments sound like EastWest compared to that free Stuff. I've tried almost everything anyone here would recommend, but feel free to surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 10/5/2019 at 12:52 PM, Some Guy said: You can think that, but 10 years ago Pro Tools was bundling most of AIR's stuff, which is still better than 98.6% of "free stuff" on the internet. So, I completely disagree. And this comparison is just... laughable. No one in their late teens/twenties, looking for a DAW in late 2019, is going to care how a free DAW and some free stuff compares to a 10-year old version of another DAW. Free stuff is generally mediocre, especially in the realm of sampler instruments and non-synth VSTis. They may be fine for you, if you're willing to completely throw quality out of the water. But the Kontakt/Halion factory instruments sound like EastWest compared to that free Stuff. I've tried almost everything anyone here would recommend, but feel free to surprise me. LOL. To each his own. I have all of the AIR bundles. And the Sonar bundles since the beginning of time. As well as a couple of other commercial DAWs, along with their bundled content. Some of the free stuff that I have encountered equals or surpasses some things that I have bought. So you are welcome to your own opinion regarding mediocre. I haven't wasted any money on Kontakt/Halion, or East West yet. You really need to learn to use what you have, and decide what you really need, before you begin to spend money on high end commercial products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, abacab said: LOL. To each his own. I have all of the AIR bundles. And the Sonar bundles since the beginning of time. As well as a couple of other commercial DAWs, along with their bundled content. Some of the free stuff that I have encountered equals or surpasses some things that I have bought. So you are welcome to your own opinion regarding mediocre. I haven't wasted any money on Kontakt/Halion, or East West yet. You really need to learn to use what you have, and decide what you really need, before you begin to spend money on high end commercial products. That isn't saying much. Crap is sold all of the time. But, you aren't going to find a free Orchestral Library that even approaches Garritan Personal Orchestra or Halion Symphonic Orchestra... and those are cheap $99-149 Factory-quality products; which aren't even approaching some of the better Kontakt Orchestral Libraries, or CineSounds/EastWest/VSL... I'm sorry, but no. High end sample libraries retail for several hundred to thousands of dollars for a reason. Most of those free libraries are missing so many articulations and ornaments as to be completely unusable for anything beyond very basic work, anyways. Yes, you have to learn to use what you have, but it's $85 to buy the entire AIR Collection Complete (Xpand!2 for $15 then upgrade to Complete for $70). If you want to make money in this business, then "free" samples aren't going to get you far. Investment is needed - the same way you have to buy a computer to use the DAW. If you have the AIR stuff, then you already have better than 99.5% of the free stuff out there - barring quite niche things (there are always edge cases). I've tried most of the recommended free stuff (because people always ask about it). I've never heard a free drum plugin as good as Strike 2, a free piano as good as Mini Grand, or even used a free Strings library as good as the samples in Xpand! or Structure 2 - and none of those are market leaders, and generally dirt cheap. This stuff just doesn't exist. So either you were buying some of the worst commercial content out there (hard to imaging... even SONIVOX's orchestral sections are more usable, and only $3.99 per section on Plugin Boutique), your recollection is faulty, or simply just find humor in being contrarian. I wouldn't recommend any upstart/newbie buy $400 sample libraries. I'd send them to Plugin Boutique to spend $85, instead. . The bundled content is not a huge factor to working professionals, as they typically don't use much of it - barring some plugins. It's a huge factor to people who see a free DAW and then bolt because the package is bare and doesn't allow them to do much with it OOTB. That stuff is dirt cheap, and a steal at that price given the quality. However, users on these forums tend to be as partisan about their plugins as they are about their DAWs ? So it's actually incredibly annoying just wading through the gibberish and vitriol when looking for recommendations (especially in the lower price brackets, where people can sometimes seem to care too much). Also, a lot of the best free and low cost stuff requires Kontact, anyways. Its basically the MS Office of Samplers. Wait til Black Friday and get it on Discount. EastWest can be subscribed on an as-needed basis. The disparity in DAW features is more of an issue for me. I'd pay $200 any day for Cakewalk if it had Logic Pro X's Articulation Manager and Score Editor. That stuff would pay for itself within 2 weeks in time saved, as well as decreased frustration and infuriation, while using the DAW. Edited October 7, 2019 by Some Guy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve Ripper Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 I use AIR Transfuser. But the problem that it s not being updated for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I thought we were talking about samplers, and whether they should be bundled or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, pwalpwal said: agree that bundled stuff is important to new users, a shame that bandlab aren't bundling anthing also agree that air aren't the be-all-and-end-all of plugins AIR are bundle-quality plugins, that's primarily why I recommend them. They were developed to be bundled with Pro Tools. The idea is that you add them to Cakewalk by BandLab, and you end up with a decent out of the box experience comparable to other commercial DAWs that bundle similar content (often at [far] higher prices). They aren't the "end-all-be-all" of plugins. They are just a decent, dirt cheap, base set. On 10/7/2019 at 4:28 AM, Eve Ripper said: I use AIR Transfuser. But the problem that it s not being updated for a long time. When was the last time EXS24 (for example) got a major update? ? DAW-bundled stuff often goes several years without updates. Once the products are feature complete and serve their intended purpose, they get put in maintenance mode until the situation demands they be developed further. It's just that many people don't actually look at the release timeline of DAW-bundled stuff, but will when this stuff is bought separately ? On 10/7/2019 at 1:07 PM, abacab said: I thought we were talking about samplers, and whether they should be bundled or not? You were talking about matrix view and clip launchers, upthread I think the Sampler could be useful for sound design, even if they ripped all of the libraries out. But I'm not sure it matters a ton, since most serious users are going to be on Kontakt, already. I think a bare synth is probably more useful - in general - than a Sampler without sample libraries ? Edited October 9, 2019 by Some Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Some Guy said: I think the Sampler could be useful for sound design, even if they ripped all of the libraries out. But I'm not sure it matters a ton, since most serious users are going to be on Kontakt, already. I think a bare synth is probably more useful - in general - than a Sampler without sample libraries ? I understood that the point of the OP in this thread was about making samples (i.e. sound design), not sample libraries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve Ripper Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 Yes, I am talking about full sampler with abilty to record, sample, resample how it was done before in Cakewalk with it's Dropzone, Cyclone, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Eve Ripper said: Yes, I am talking about full sampler with abilty to record, sample, resample how it was done before in Cakewalk with it's Dropzone, Cyclone, etc. Correct. That's why I think they should have offered the base Sampler product, even without the sample libraries. It's kind of a big part of a DAW which enables a lot of people to take their creativity up a notch (or enable it completely, depending on what type of music you're producing). Best option is to just use something cheap like Structure 2, in the meantime, and hope they bring back some of the SONAR stuff soon'ish. But that stuff was already aging by the time they shut it down. So, I'm not sure what they plan to do. On 10/9/2019 at 5:10 AM, pwalpwal said: sorry i suppose i meant "bundling anything instrument-wise" because the stock plugs plus the pro channel do cover all the processing bases ootb They do cover the basics, but some of the plugins in Creative FX Plus would require you to set up plug-in chains with Sonitus:FX to replicate (and there are a few really good ones). Using those is a workflow win. I also (personally) like having a set of base plugins that are consistent and work across DAWs and Platforms, that way if I ever switch I can alleviate learning curve by using them until I acclimate myself to what's in the other DAW - which may , or may not, be better than they are. I don't consider Sonitus:FX to be a complete set of base plugins, but I suppose they were never meant to be. One of the biggest selling points of SONAR, like Logic Pro X, was its amazing bundle of Mix, Mastering, and Effect Plugins and Instruments. If you don't need them, then you can upgrade to AIR Instrument Expansion Pack 3 SELECT instead of COMPLETE and save ~$20 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 10:24 AM, pwalpwal said: my base plugins are eq, compressor and reverb what else should be in there? (gate, limiter?) Whatever anyone feels is necessary to do their work ? Different people have different needs and requirements. People who do Electronic Music, for example, are certainly going to want (and need) a bit more than that. No one has to spend money on that stuff. We all get to choose our own path ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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