New to DAW -- question about setting up Roland V-Drums to Cakewalk MIDI track

[Joel Pixton]

20 hours ago, John Vere said:

Steven Slate also has a lot in their demo kit, much more than SI for sure .In the Maps is one Roland kit but my guess is someone has a map for yours out there. It also involves a log in to an installer but it's defiantly worth trying the demos for both of these. 

I came across an older thread of a person who said that because of the Addictive Drums map for his TD-8 - it gave his module an extra life. He was having problems getting the Hi-Hat pedal data to match the brain as well.  And after hearing your recent success after activating the DTX drum map into Addictive drums and getting the hi hat to work exactly like the one in the brain -- I no doubt know that Addictive Drums will make this set up process much more less of a head ache.

Though, naturally my brain wonders. I asked in the V-Drum forums about acquiring a map for the TD-8 and am being told that 'mapping' is easy. And, once again I am confused.

I've seen the Creative Sauce videos on how to create your own MIDI map and it does look easy. However, you mentioned a few things regarding getting a VST that can have a drum map applied so CC events etc are correct.

The process of creating a custom MIDI map - AND - getting the VST to correspond with the CC events correctly -- these sound like two different processes. 

I remember being told a long time ago that recording my TD-8 via MIDI would take quite a bit of effort to get the kit to work with the VST-- that I'd have to map all the MIDI messages, optimize the sensitivity, dynamic range, etc. It was essentially why I never bothered with it. It sounded tedious.

I was wondering if this process is in fact, 'easy'? Because it sounds like a massive amount of work if I can not acquire a prepared map for my TD-8.

And, if a VST does not have a map available for my TD-8 module -- it sounds like the VST would almost be useless, as the MIDI data would not be optimized.

Just some thoughts. 

[John Vere]

As I said my DTX kit is very basic compared to yours so it probably wasn’t as much involved in linking the hi hat pedal to the VST. Before all I got was the GM open and closed which as you know is a mile away from how a hi hat is actually played. Now I get acceptable variety of opening sounds which I have no clue how that works but it definitely made a difference. I guess my pedal sends a continuous controller event and Addictive drums has multiple samples to match that. I need to learn what articulation is all about. I’ve never looked into it and I have a feeling it’s important to create more realistic midi instruments. 

[Joel Pixton]

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

As I said my DTX kit is very basic compared to yours so it probably wasn’t as much involved in linking the hi hat pedal to the VST.

I just downloaded the Addictive Drums 2 free demo and I'm sold on it. I used the TD-8 map and it immediately fixed the hi-hat. I had one headphone from the module on my right ear and I was listening to addictive drums from my computer speakers -- it captures the hi-hat just like the brain. And to test it - I muted the Cakewalk AD instrument, recorded a MIDI track while monitoring from my module head phones, I recorded some hi-hat choke intensive beats, played it back in Cakewalk and it sounded like perfection as far as my ear can hear.

I'm going to purchase Addictive Drums 2 and instead of spending anymore time with CC midi mapping technical details with different free VST's - I'm going to spend my energy getting quicker with the work flow of Cakewalk and Addictive Drums.

Also, I spent yesterday learning how to change the MIDI note assignments and I changed the TD-6 back to channel 10 and changed all the pad note assignments to the secondary note numbers on the TD-8 jazz kit. So, both modules are now on one MIDI channel and no pad number is the same. I assume this will be the quickest way to record my MIDI tracks once I map all the extra pads in AD and do a latency test between the modules.

As someone else said in a random post I saw -- 'Addictive Drums gave their TD-8 a second lease on life'. We will see, so far so good.

[JnTuneTech]

4 hours ago, Joel Pixton said:

The process of creating a custom MIDI map - AND - getting the VST to correspond with the CC events correctly -- these sound like two different processes. 

Yes, but maybe not as complicated as you are worrying it will be. -Time consuming, for sure, but really, you only have so many pads, even tweaking them one by one isn't terribly hard. Usually the defaults for sensitivity, response curve, should work fine, although as some hardware ages, the pads lose some of that sensitivity, I have seen that happen. But anyway, -generally, you may only want to get your kit piece custom note assignments mapped out - I tend to do it on an actual text document, or heaven forbid a piece of paper ? - Doh!

The rest of it you simply decide - do I want to map the kit notes to the VST, or the other way around. -The default maps you find will most likely be based on Roland defaults, but since you want to mix 2 sets, making your own map may be easiest.

Then, as far as the CC element is concerned, each (good) VST has a manual that describes the default assignments for notes to drum samples, and how to change that. In there, they point out which note number(s) respond to hi-hat CC control, and I think there is a standard that links those together. -But at first, you may be best to try a default mapping the VST has (hopefully) for your pads/module, and then you can test it for hi-hat response, and then look at that preset mapping and modify all the other pieces to match your specific pad numbers, etc., leaving the hi-hat set as recommended.  -Does that make sense?

[Joel Pixton]

2 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

But anyway, -generally, you may only want to get your kit piece custom note assignments mapped out - I tend to do it on an actual text document, or heaven forbid a piece of paper ? - Doh!

Funny you mention this -- I spent a few hours yesterday learning how and ultimately doing this. And, I used a notepad text document to make sure I had all the correct note numbers organized correctly and documented. I actually changed the TD-6 back to channel 10 and changed the extra pads to note numbers that corresponded with the secondary percussion sounds I was aiming for in the Jazz kit in the TD-8. So, I now have all pads on the same channel and no numbers are duplicates. I think in total I now have 19 pads/ MIDI note numbers. 

2 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

But at first, you may be best to try a default mapping the VST has (hopefully) for your pads/module, and then you can test it for hi-hat response, and then look at that preset mapping and modify all the other pieces to match your specific pad numbers, etc., leaving the hi-hat set as recommended.  -Does that make sense?

I downloaded the Addictive Drums 2 free demo today and it had a map for the TD-8, just like John had mentioned. And as he also mentioned, the hi-hat was automatically set and the response was identical to the module brain. I was so relieved by this. I was expecting it to be much more of complicated process. I think I will just spring for the actual software and purchase it. It's too convenient and sounds amazing. I think you are correct when you say that these pads deserve a good VST/ drum engine to accompany it. 

[John Vere]

Good move! I have a few VST drums and Addictive drums for me works the best. The mixer allows me to only need the stereo outputs instead of multi channel to process the audio. I find everything I need is built in.  It’s not perfect but I have managed to squeeze pretty close to what I like with just the built in effects. The Overhead and room mikes makes a huge difference to even the snare, just like a real mikes up kit would be.  
My only complaint is that they never have super sales so I could grab more kits and pieces. 
Now you really gave me GAS for the Roland kits. 

[Joel Pixton]

5 hours ago, John Vere said:

Good move! I have a few VST drums and Addictive drums for me works the best. 

I'm thankful you suggested grabbing the free demo and for showing me a screen shot that it did in fact have a map for the TD-8. I really had to see/hear it for myself. Also, thankful to @JnTuneTechfor making an undeniably true statement that my Roland pads deserve a good VST/ drum engine. 

Also, I can see you linked your YouTube Cakewalk Tutorial Playlist below. I just subscribed to your channel. I'll definitely be watching considering I'm brand new to Cakewalk, too.