Creating Backing Tracks

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

I don't know what CbB is so I don't know if it's my work.

CbB = Cakewalk by BandLab

[Notes_Norton]

Thanks Msmcleod.

Starise, I haven't done any CbB tracks yet. I'm still using Master Tracks Pro.

The gigging season got really, really busy here in S. Florida (that's a good thing) so I haven't had enough time to get good at CbB yet. I had to learn some songs for special requests at gigs, and since I already know where everything is in MTPro, I'm using it simply because I'm quick with it. When I have the time to learn where everything is and what it's called in CbB, I'll probably ditch MTPro as it has been orphaned since Windows XP.

But MIDI is MIDI, whether I program it with CbB or MTPro it should sound the same. All my sound modules are external, so the voices won't change.

Insights and incites by Notes

[Starise]

Bob,

Thanks for sharing what you use for your show. I checked out your page too. You've been at this for quite awhile and are quite a musician. Your wife sings well too.! It's good that you can stay busy down there in Fla. doing what you like to do.

Never considered keeping drums and bass on the L channel in mono and the rest on the R channel. I could maybe do similar to that using submixes on one channel in Ableton , CbB or in using Prime. In that case the audio interface would be my mixer and I would need either a touch screen or a tactile midi controller for my sound work. I use a few midi controllers now for similar kinds of things. I don't have these large hour long shows though. I'm finished in 15-20 minutes.Though I've been doing this for over 15 years mostly playing solo piano. In my very limited exposure to live track work the more simple my setup is, the better. Complexity in the studio is great. On stage I don't have time to fiddle around with stuff. I'm guessing you don't use reverb at all or very little? I mean, the space itself is usually the reverb right? 

A few users here use only Cakewalk when playing live tracks. It even does the lighting through midi control. One thing that really helped me was to download the Prime app for free on my iPad. It lets you upload any of your tracks for free. When playing it back you get visual feedback of where you are on the track and audible count off information for sections. In other words when going into  verse2 you  get a "1,2,3   and verse 2" or similar piped to your ear on one side along with the click. You need wifi to download the tracks you uploaded. After that you don't need it, so it's best in that case to download the set on a good network and not try it at the gig. 

 Prime doesn't do midi however you still have individual control over each track in a song,  which is great. For a really important show I would do the same thing you do and have some redundancy so if the iPad gets dropped I have a backup plan. With Prime I can mix down in any DAW , upload individual tracks to Prime and mix from there. If the initial mix is good it will sound good in Prime.  It all fits in a device the size of a book. I use a 1/8" stereo male from the iPad that splits into two 1/4" phono jacks  then into stereo D box. One track is the click and goes to my headphone amp and the rest of the band who use ear buds. The other track is the music going to the house.I also loop that track back into the headphone amp. I'm pretty fortunate in that I play only one place and know that PA fairly well. If I wanted more instant control over the mix I would be using Ableton and a midi controller. That way, if I wanted to extend the chorus one more time I could do that on the fly.

No matter how you do it, it sounds simple in explanation until you do it. When you're out there though things can happen, I'm sure you have some stories to tell, and why you give yourself an hour and a half to get set up.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Starise

[Jim Fogle]

On 1/9/2019 at 10:27 PM, Will said:

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

Will,

Perhaps but that wasn't what I understood and I'm still not sure I understand.  My remark was based on this sentence: 

On 1/9/2019 at 2:32 PM, Will said:

If I wanted to record a cover for album purposes though, I would certainly give it a new arrangement, so a backing track would be out of the question.

I don't understand why a new arrangement will not use or need backing tracks.  You can't play all instruments at the same time!  Won't you create new audio tracks that will follow the new arrangement?  To me backing tracks is audio prerecorded to support and enhance a performance.

I'm not trying to be argumentative  but I am trying to understand the meaning of your sentence.

[Will]

I thought it was obvious I meant using someone else's backing track. Guess I wasn't obvious enough.

[bayoubill]

Here's my cover of Autumn Leaves by Miles Davis 

Miles version ;

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by bayoubill
Didn't work first time

[bayoubill]

My version of miles version ;

 

[Will]

Ooh,  likes yours even betta. I didn't know you could play like that Bill. I'm officially gonna crawl in a hole now. Hope der ain't no snakes in there.

[bayoubill]

7 hours ago, Will said:

 

Using my own backing tracks prepares me for whatever musical situation I'm trying to improve on. like the ii V I in C I posted. I'll use something like that to practice comping or chord soloing etc with quartal harmony . Experimenting with 3 and 4 note combinations  in the chart opens up endless amount of choices on the V chord. 

I didn't highlight the root on the photo.  Root's on the 6th string on the E string at the 5th fret. (A) on the top and 5th string at 5th fret on the A string (E) on the bottom so its Aalt7 on top and E7alt on bottom if you want to play around with them, Much fun IMHO

P.S. use your hear on these.  the lower register won't sound very good so go at least an octave above the bass to prevent any instrumental conflicts

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by bayoubill

[bayoubill]

I don't know why it quoted you Will.  Thanks for the kind words.

 

Miles is one of my favorites! 

[Starise]

22 hours ago, bayoubill said:

My version of miles version ;

 

Nice work on this!

[kzmaier]

For those wishing to speed up the process.  Make CbB the windows default midi file player, then double clip on a midi file.  CbB will load up the TTS soft synth for all tracks and the song tempo will be set.  Now you can substitute other soft synths to taste by coping the midi to new synth tracks.  EZdrummer, SIBass, .... 

Then substitute parts with real instruments.

I think this is a great feature when playing around with covers.  Wish I knew about this feature a long time ago.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by kzmaier

[Notes_Norton]

There is definitely more than one right way to do this.

For me, all the work is done at home. I try to keep things as simple as possible on stage. Since I cue the songs, sing and/or play either sax, guitar, flute or wind synth on each song.

By having mp3s pre-recorded at home on a laptop, I can start a song by highlighting it in Windows File Explorer and hitting Enter. It plays on Windows Media Player.

While it's playing, Alt+Tab puts the focus back on File Explorer. Since the laptop keyboard is always available, type two or 3 letters and the next song is cued up. Hit enter and it plays.

That was I can go from song to song seamlessly, and even change my mind in the last few seconds of the song we are playing and still go seamlessly.

I don't do set lists, but prefer to do my best to read the crowd and play what they need when they want it. Since my market is the over 40 audience, if they are fast dancing and there is 2 seconds between songs, they will head back to their seats and the next song won't bring them back. So I've learned when I need to go to the next song seamlessly.

But back on topic.

By doing my own backing tracks, I have complete control over the music. If I want to eliminate the rubato intro I can because the intro might not be danceable (is danceable a word?). I can even record two versions in case it's a listening and not dancing crowd I can do the intro.

I can also start with the hook and then go into the first verse. Often people recognize songs by the hook, and the quicker they recognize it, the faster they will respond.

I can put the key in the best key for us so we can sing it at its best.

I can lengthen slow songs because for my market 2.5 minutes isn't long enough. 4 to5 is optimal.

I can speed it up a few BPM because for live performance, it adds energy. This is something I've learned from all the live bands (no backing tracks) I've ever played with.

And by mixing in mono and having the bass and drums on a second channel, but tweaking the midrange pot, I can pump up or down the snare, or using the gain pot bring up or down the core rhythm section.

This all works for me, and it is my current way of doing things. It has evolved through the years as I find ways that solve problems I had and work better for me. It might not be the way for anybody else, and I might change it again at any time.

Insights and incites by Notes

 

[Starise]

Thank Notes. Well, I'm going to be honest here, it isn't always as easy as it seems, at least for me.  Probably because when I look at doing it I'm not usually copying a cover, so my thinking is something like, I want to make a nice backing track>now what? I made a few things but couldn't get words for them. They sounded ok but I didn't know what to do with them. Maybe some of this is not wanting to commit to something I wasn't sure about. It's like songwriting and having a mental block. Anyone else have this issue?

Not that copying a cover can't be difficult too, especially if it has a bunch of odd stuff in it.

[57Gregy]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Not that copying a cover can't be difficult too, especially if it has a bunch of odd stuff in it

Bill can play it.

[Notes_Norton]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Thank Notes. Well, I'm going to be honest here, it isn't always as easy as it seems, at least for me.  Probably because when I look at doing it I'm not usually copying a cover, so my thinking is something like, I want to make a nice backing track>now what? I made a few things but couldn't get words for them. They sounded ok but I didn't know what to do with them. Maybe some of this is not wanting to commit to something I wasn't sure about. It's like songwriting and having a mental block. Anyone else have this issue?

Not that copying a cover can't be difficult too, especially if it has a bunch of odd stuff in it.

Some of what I do are covers, as close to a famous recording as I am able.

Some of my tracks are similar to a recording, but with my own twist on them.

Others are completely rearranged, like Stevie Wonder's "You Are The Sunshine Of My Life" as a cool school jazz (swing) tune, Jimmy Buffet's "Son Of  A Sailor" as a Reggae tune, Dolly Parton's "Joline" as a slow, torch song, and so on.

We play once a week at a marina on a lagoon in Florida (in our 11th year) and tropical songs are welcome. Jimmy Buffet is a big hit here too. I had a woman who is now a regular customer ask for Jimmy Buffet's "A Pirate Looks At 40".  I warned her that I didn't do it like the record (I do it as a calypso steel-drum band song with something close to a rhumba rhythm). She says she likes it better than Jimmy's ballad version and requests it often.

We often play at yacht or country clubs (good $$ for the hours) and the need a 'dinner set'. Playing old pop songs as instrumental bossa-novas works well. I put the lead on the wind synthesizer instead of the sax, turn the PA down until we are at 65dba and get my gentle chops out. After dinner we get to crank it up to about 100db and play moderately high to high energy dance music.

It depends on what I think my audience would like. I'm not always correct in my guesses, but all in all I have a good track record.

I actually like playing different genres and different energy levels of music. Each genre puts me in a different emotional state, and I have the challenge of trying to sound authentic in many genres.

We don't do originals, because I learned people want memories, but we do some parodies. We do a version of "Winter Wonderland" that has no up-north references and lots of Florida ones, like "Plastic pink flamingos in the lawn." Especially at the marina, fun songs go over well.

All and all, in order to make a living doing music and nothing but music, you need to be versatile and mold your 'act' to the needs of the audience. That sometimes means compromise, but a bad day playing music is better than a good day at any other job I can think of.

Insights and incites by Notes

[Starise]

I'm glad you found something that is working well for you.You have given me a bunch I ideas I can use. Thanks!