kitekrazy1 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Lionel said: We can all thank Adobe for the surge in software and app subscriptions being offered by other companies. The amount of profit Adobe makes quarter after quarter is just ridiculous. They are the subscription standard and they're just riding this billion dollar cash cow. Not until they all start losing money will those companies stop offering subscriptions. So yeah, we need to hit 'em where it hurts... their wallets. Please don't subscribe, folks. When you subscribe, you're just validating the whole software subscription business model. So, cancel those subscriptions from Adobe, Avid, Capture One, PA, Reason+, Roland, Slate, Mobile Apps, etc. There are alternatives. Photoshop/Lightroom was $10. There are probably more people in your neighborhood who use that than a DAW. Stuffed shirts thought "hey let's try that". I could see if Waves did a $29 a month sub to access everything some would go for it. Who knows maybe the rent to own is the nest frontier. BTW that's done with our credit cards anyway. Splice offered rent to own. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 22 minutes ago, Bapu said: I wonder how many anti-sub users have a Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV+, Paramount+, Hulu etc account? ? Apples and oranges. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technostica Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 31 minutes ago, Bapu said: I wonder how many anti-sub users have a Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV+, Paramount+, Hulu etc account? ? People here are anti music production software subscriptions which is very different. I have an Office 365 sub because it gives me OneDrive, plus I can install it on 5 devices and share it with up to 5 other people. I pay about £35-40 per year and share it with 3 other people and use 3TB of OneDrive. If Waves do a £40 a year deal which can be shared amongst six people, with five activations each, I think some people would put the pitchforks down! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallstonefan Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Maybe Waves knows their business better than any "forum experts" and they are doing the right thing for their company and shareholders. Just a thought. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Iglesias Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Tomorrow we will know if it is a subscription or not. It is clear to me that I am not going to pay for a subscription. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 25 minutes ago, Technostica said: People here are anti music production software subscriptions which is very different. Yes, this exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) Frankly, my instinct is that if Waves moves exclusively to a subscription model, they'll eventually find it doesn't generate the desired revenue and move back to perpetual licenses (and continue to offer subscriptions as an option). I completely get why software companies love the idea of the subscription model, it's steady revenue. But not all consumer audiences share that affection for subscriptions. If Waves is going subscription only -- and it's still an IF at this point -- I don't think it will last two years before they return to perpetual licenses. In any event, there's been multiple threads about this and pages of speculation, so Waves has gotten a lot of attention for this. I am very interested in how it resolves. I own easily 30+ Waves plugins and the only ones I really would hate to leave behind are the Abbey Road series. Edited March 25, 2023 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 And a lot of bad rep. I’m selling all I can get rid of. BYE BYE WOOOOOOP 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, kitekrazy said: Who knows maybe the rent to own is the nest frontier. I actually like rent-to-own models. Only thing with that model, is that you’re paying full price most of the time. Companies don’t usually give you the sale price on top of a rent-to-own product. With that said, I much prefer RTO over subscription. At least you get to keep a product that allows us to open our previous sessions. Software/App subscriptions are at the very bottom of the totem pole… yes, below WUP. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Fleer said: And a lot of bad rep. I’m selling all I can get rid of. BYE BYE WOOOOOOP It's the end of an era as Fleer's love affair with WUP comes to a close. Edited March 25, 2023 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yan Filiatrault Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Fleer said: I’ll be posting some serials later on when I’m back home. For your Abbey Road Collection, you can directly send me your serial in private message. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1984 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 46 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said: Frankly, my instinct is that if Waves moves exclusively to a subscription model, they'll eventually find it doesn't generate the desired revenue and move back to perpetual licenses. I completely get why software companies love the idea of the subscription model, it's steady revenue. But not all consumer audiences share that affection for susubscriptions. If Waves is going subscription only -- and it's still an IF at this point -- I don't think it will last two years before they return to perpetual licenses. I view this a lot like I do Pro Tools going subscription. I've been paying my yearly support fees for many, many years on my perpetual licenses. Each year I update to the current versions after others have smoke tested them, and consider whether I can be content with the latest updates and freeze my system. Each year I renew. But at least I have the option. I checked this morning and found I was nearly two years expired on my Horizons bundle. WUP was $187. But I checked my upgrade offers and there was a bundle that included the Restoration bundle and Horizons -- $86. I upgraded and saved $101 on WUP and got the Restoration bundle free. And in one year (if WUP still exists, and I'll roll the dice it will) I'll have the same conversation in my head that I have about Pro Tools. If Waves goes subscription model exclusively, I will not participate; I'll be satisfied with the versions I'll have at the end of this WUP cycle and call it a day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Yan Filiatrault said: For your Abbey Road Collection, you can directly send me your serial in private message. Done. Oops. Sent to someone else. For $155 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 I think somebody is spreading disinformation. Nothing on Waves website. They are promoting and selling and having specials of all kinds there. We'll find out in a few short hours but it looks to me like a disinformation campaign. Somebody's trying to get you guys riled up for some reason. I'll believe it when I see it. But if it is true I'm done with Waves FOREVER. SMH John B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fleer said: Done. Oops. Sent to someone else. For $155 Seriously, I'm glad you were finally able to sell it! I love the Abbey Road stuff, but I completely understand and relate to why you really don't want to deal with Waves anymore. If I could do it over again, the only Waves plugins I would have bought are the Abbey Road stuff and I wish Abbey Road would do a deal with another developer for those plugins in the near future, as I would greatly prefer if they were Softube, Izotope, Sonible, Eventide, etc. over Waves. I don't like Waves marketing strategies, I'm not a fan of WUP and, while none of us really knows what's going on, it's less than ideal to not know the future of the plugins you've used on projects for years. As someone else pointed out, if you've used a plugin on a project and Waves no longer offers support for that and goes subscription only and the plugin stops working, you're SOL. I'd prefer buying from developers that are more reliable and upfront -- and there are a wealth of great alternatives these days. Edited March 25, 2023 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H. Posted March 25, 2023 Author Share Posted March 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, Johnbee58 said: I think somebody is spreading disinformation. Nothing on Waves website. They are promoting and selling and having specials of all kinds there. We'll find out in a few short hours but it looks to me like a disinformation campaign. Somebody's trying to get you guys riled up for some reason. I'll believe it when I see it. But if it is true I'm done with Waves FOREVER. SMH John B I can't imagine those 3rd party resellers are spreading disinformation. There must have been communication between Waves and Resellers. It all began (over a month ago) when Waves sended out a very vaque newsletter to their subscribers about ''Changing our License System''. Whatever that means.... Waves had plenty of time to make it clear... But they chose to remain completely silent about it. There is nothing to find about this on their Website, Terms and Conditions, or in their FAQ. At some point it is even questionable, whether it is legal to ''disable'' licenses that are bought. Why should i buy/use any of their products again if they are silent about such important matters to their customers? I don't do subscriptions. Period. Enough alternatives. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yan Filiatrault Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Fleer said: Done. Oops. Sent to someone else. For $155 Koby quoted me 120$, but I'll pass. Already too much stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trager Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, Yan Filiatrault said: Koby quoted me 120$, but I'll pass. Already too much stuff. Was that for an upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said: Seriously, I'm glad you were finally able to sell it! I love the Abbey Road stuff, but I completely understand and relate to why you really don't want to deal with Waves anymore. If I could do it over again, the only Waves plugins I would have bought are the Abbey Road stuff and I wish Abbey Road would do a deal with another developer for those plugins in the near future, as I would greatly prefer if they were Softube, Izotope, Sonible, Eventide, etc. over Waves. I don't like Waves marketing strategies, I'm not a fan of WUP and, while none of us really knows what's going on, it's less than ideal to not know the future of the plugins you've used on projects for years. As someone else pointed out, if you've used a plugin on a project and Waves no longer offers support for that and goes subscription only and the plugin stops working, you're SOL. I'd prefer buying from developers that are more reliable and upfront -- and there are a wealth of great alternatives these days. Indeed. Still got to get rid of my Pianos & Keys Bundle serial now. One more day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1984 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 26 minutes ago, Martin H. said: Waves had plenty of time to make it clear... But they chose to remain completely silent about it. There is nothing to find about this on their Website, Terms and Conditions, or in their FAQ. At some point it is even questionable, whether it is legal to ''disable'' licenses that are bought. Days ago I chatted with online support, who suggested I write to Sales using their form; I got substantially the same response as everyone else. I own Waves perpetual licenses. Waves' Terms and Conditions page defines what is a perpetual license and what are the terms. https://www.waves.com/legal/terms-and-conditions Occam's razor suggests the "change in licensing" is more likely to be a change in the license manager/backend. Third-party sellers currently hold activation codes that were previously generated by the current licensing server. Changing the license management system would, necessarily, invalidate any existing codes generated from the previous system -- they would not validate in the new system. So, redeem codes in time for the changeover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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