Gain Staging Audio Tracks with VST Intruments

[David Wm. Sims]

I have an audio track with TTS-1 loaded in as in instrument in the FX slot.  With the track Gain at zero and the output of the TTS all the way up, the level is too low, but if I increase the track gain of the audio track, it doesn't seem to change the output of the track at all.  The output of the track doesn't change if I move the track Gain from zero to max.

I know I could go to a MIDI track that is output to the TTS-1 track and increase the MIDI gain, but I don't want to change the velocity of the performance; I just want to increase the audio level of the audio track with the TTS-1.  I can't increase the volume of the TTS-1 because that's already all the way up.  

Is there a way to adjust the gain of an audio track with a VST instrument without messing with the MIDI velocity?  Any insight would be appreciated.

[Lord Tim]

Volume isn't velocity, so just turning up the MIDI track will increase the volume but preserve the velocity in the performance.

That said, gain not changing when you adjust the slider is a bit odd. Are you using a separate MIDI and audio tracks (ie: a split instrument) or a combined Simple Instrument Track? If it's a simple instrument track, try splitting it to it's parts and seeing if that has any affect on the ability to adjust the synth track gain.

[John Vere]

Forget it. 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by John Vere

[David Baay]

15 hours ago, David Wm. Sims said:

I have an audio track with TTS-1 loaded in as in instrument in the FX slot. 

As John pointed out, this is the root of the problem. The FX bin is after the Gain control. You need to insert the instrument in the Synth Rack and set its output as the Input to the audio track so the signal will enter the track ahead of the Gain control. Inserting instruments in FX bins is supported for backward compatibility for projects (actually pre-SONAR 2 .WRK files) that used this approach, but is not the preferred usage now and is subject to other issues.

[Lord Tim]

Good catch, guys - I missed the "FX Slot" part.

[David Wm. Sims]

Thanks for the insight, David.  I have been using Cakewalk since 1995, when putting the instrument in the FX bin was the only way to use softsynths.  I was aware that instrument tracks and the Synth Rack were added later, but putting the instruments in the FX bin was what I was used to doing and and it worked for me, so I never explored it much.  Now that I'm trying to be better about my gain staging, I guess I'll have to catch up the the rest of the world. 

I followed your instructions and put a TTS-1 in the Synth Rack and am using it to feed an audio track.  With the TTS-1 turned all the way up, I am having to set the track Input Gain to positive 13, which seems like a lot, to get an RMS level of -18 dB and peak level of -9 dB.  I'm using the FreeG metering plugin to get those numbers.  The synth is playing a MIDI sequence where all the note velocities are 100.  

Does that seem normal that I would need to turn up the synth that much?  Maybe it's just because the TTS-1 is an ancient product and doesn't have an audio output control?

Thanks very much for your help.

[Lord Tim]

That does seem quiet, but how quiet is the actual performance itself? If it's a very dynamic performance with a lot of low velocity values, then it could very well be quiet overall. There's nothing wrong with turning the MIDI track's volume up. And, ultimately, it really doesn't matter how you get the level you need at the end, so long as it works.  

[David Wm. Sims]

Thanks for your reply, Tim.  I've tried a few other synths (Kontakt, a few Arturia synths) using the same MIDI part, and they all come into the track input at a relatively normal level.  I think this just a TTS-1 thing.  Thanks for your help.