Best workflow for editing MIDI CC data?

[James Boddie]

I am confused about all of the options for inputting and editing MIDI CC data--specifically Dynamics(or Modulation), Expression, and Vibrato.

I know how to record this data and display and edit on the piano roll.  I understand that to record CC data over previously entered notes, that I can use Record Sound over Sound (after erasing the previously recorded CC data). 

But is that the best way to do this?

I know I can move the CC data to envelopes and edit there.  But I do not understand how to record over a portion of the envelopes without going through the Piano Roll conversion process.  it is very confusing when there are multiple handles for the same control, e.g. CC1, Modulation, Dynamics, Wheel, Kontakt controls, ...

In my trials (and many errors),

1. I have managed to get the DAW in a state where Kontact is receiving previously recorded data while I am inputting new data resulting is studdering.

2. I can reliably convert CCs in the Piano Roll to envelopes but sometimes cannot move the data back to CCs.

3. I have seen a recorded envelope superimposed over notes in the track view but cannot produce a corresponding automation lane in the dropdown,

So is the right workflow to stay with CC data in the Piano Roll, somehow use automation lanes exclusively, or switch between CC data and envelopes?

 

[David Baay]

To write/re-write automation after the fact you need to enable Write automation on the track in the desired mode and write the new data during playback:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Automation.04.html

1. Different instruments/patches/parameters may respond badly when receiving new CC data that conflict with exisisting values. Using Overwrite mode or deleting the automation in advance should avoid this.

2. What are the steps that reproduce "cannot move the [envelope] data back to CCs"?

3. Existing envelopes should automatically move to lanes when you show automation lanes - this will need detailed steps to reproduce as well.

 

[James Boddie]

David,

Thanks for the reply.  

I don't mean to suggest there is something buggy about Cakewalk.  The issues are clearly my own misunderstanding.  

Regarding your questions:

2. My problem is that sometimes when right clicking a point on an envelope, I get a menu that offers converting to MIDI data, but there are times when a right click gives a menu without that option.  I don't yet know what conditions cause this discrepancy.

3. Again, I don't know enough to actually reproduce it.  Just there was a condition in which I could see a preveously recorded envelope superimposed over the notes but when expanding the automation lanes, that wavey envelope did not appear.  Perhaps there is something related to the difference in clip automation and track automation.  I will need more experiments.

At any rate, I have decided that for the moment, I will stick to editing CC data in the pane below the Piano Roll and avoid the envelope business until I have more experience or learn why it is a better workflow for dealing with CC data that controls the library (Modulation, Expression, Vibrato, etc).

[David Baay]

Likewise, I'm not suggesting there isn't a bug; just trying to get a handle on the steps that manifest the problem so it can be reported if necessary. My main issue with moving between CCs and envelopes is that conversion of CCs to envelopes uses linear segments instead of jumps by default and doesn't give you an option. The segment types can only be changed one at a time, and converting back will create new CC events with interpolated values.

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Likewise, I'm not suggesting there isn't a bug; just trying to get a handle on the steps that manifest the problem so it can be reported if necessary. My main issue with moving between CCs and envelopes is that conversion of CCs to envelopes uses linear segments instead of jumps by default and doesn't give you an option. The segment types can only be changed one at a time, and converting back will create new CC events with interpolated values.

We're renaming "Freehand Smoothing" to "Automation Smoothing" so it'll affect other areas such as recording automation and also CC to envelopes.

So in the next release, you'll be able to choose jumps, lines or the standard curve smoothing it uses at present.