4K video card inquiry

[Amicus717]

Hi everyone,

I'm curious what graphics card folks are using with 4K displays and Cakewalk. I've got a 4K Samsung TV and two 1440p monitors flanking it, and while it all looks great, I've noticed recently that my graphics card is beginning to chug, especially when I have multiple Kontakt 7 instances open. I've got a GeForce GT 710 with multiple HDMI outputs, and it's performed just fine for about a year (full-screen 4K video was choppy, but other than that I had no problems running Cakewalk and Cubase in 4K and using multiple monitors).

I guess new software and various updates have made the 710 no longer up to the task, so I was thinking of upgrading. Some card/GPU suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Rob 

[reginaldStjohn]

I use a pretty basic AMD Radeon card. I had trouble with Nvidia and latency issues so I went with AMD and have no problems. Driving a 4k TCL TV.

[Amicus717]

4 minutes ago, reginaldStjohn said:

I use a pretty basic AMD Radeon card. I had trouble with Nvidia and latency issues so I went with AMD and have no problems. Driving a 4k TCL TV.

Thanks! By any chance, would you happen to know the model or GPU version? I have been looking at models like the Radeon RX 550, etc. But it's hard to get any kind of performance reviews that include productivity / non-3D application use. Everything is gaming benchmarks and little else, these days. Or so it seems, anyway...

Edited January 26, 2023 by Amicus717

[Starship Krupa]

 

On 1/26/2023 at 11:36 AM, Amicus717 said:

it's hard to get any kind of performance reviews that include productivity / non-3D application use. Everything is gaming benchmarks and little else, these days

Ugh, this has long been a gripe of mine. Fortunately, in recent years, there's been some relief. I'm a stalwart nVidia user from way back, and they now even have special "creators" drivers that are supposedly optimized for NLE/DAW/raster graphic editing.

There's still no benchmark program that I know of for 2D performance, but the thing is, 4G of DDR5 and you're good to go.

You will find an enormous performance boost compared to your GT 710 no matter what you get.

In order to find recommendations, Google "best video cards for video editing."

https://justcreative.com/best-graphics-cards-for-video-editing/

They seem to think that the RX550 is a good budget choice, you can pick up an RX-580 for $121:

https://www.amazon.com/51RISC-RX-580-8GB-DisplayPort/dp/B0BNBN8HQF

My daily driver is a passively cooled GT 1030 DDR5 (that last is important, nVidia also has one with GDDR4 that should be avoided) and I can even run all of my indie games on it at ultra settings. Only has two outputs, though. As I only have two monitors, this is fine with me. I like a quiet PC, and it's the most powerful passively-cooled one out there.

[Xoo]

2 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

like a quiet PC, and it's the most powerful passively-cooled one out there.

Ditto and I have the same card.  At least you can get passive nVidia cards.

[Amicus717]

Thanks for the info, folks. Appreciated. 

[Jim Roseberry]

Recent Nvidia cards don't have issues with drivers causing high DPC Latency.

In fact, if you're really pushing the limits of ultra low audio latency performance (say running at 32-sample ASIO buffer size or smaller), you're better off with a RTX-3xxx video card than AMD 6xxx.  Audio will start glitching sooner with the AMD 6xxx series.  I've tested side-by-side with otherwise identical configuration.

[Amicus717]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:23 PM, Jim Roseberry said:

Recent Nvidia cards don't have issues with drivers causing high DPC Latency.

In fact, if you're really pushing the limits of ultra low audio latency performance (say running at 32-sample ASIO buffer size or smaller), you're better off with a RTX-3xxx video card than AMD 6xxx.  Audio will start glitching sooner with the AMD 6xxx series.  I've tested side-by-side with otherwise identical configuration.

Thanks, Jim. Appreciate it a lot. I don't run my audio latency quite that low, but I use all VST libraries (and a lot of them at once) so that last thing I need is my graphics card getting in the way. 

[Steev]

If you have 12" (30.5 cm) to spare in your computer's case I recommend AMD FirePro graphics cards made by AMD because of their extreme/critical only one tear of quality control, and their ability to be configured to process video independently from the computer's CPU and RAM resources for little to no impact. Yeah, that makes them a tad large in size, and a bit costly upfront investment, but they last a LOOOOONG TIME. Since 2011 starting with a V-4900 PCIe v2/ OpenGL v2 I used as primary workstation workhorse for 8 YEARS, & currently running a W4100 PCIe v3/ OpenGL v4 going on 4 YEARS of glitch & trouble-free high performance being pushed to the punishing limits (just under system crashes) starting with Sony Vegas Pro 4 up to the current Magix Vegas Pro 18 NLE's. 

I have only had upgraded 2 FirePro graphics cards for what turned out to be relatively small advantages using newer video FX plugin support and slightly faster video rendering Vegas Pro 18 NLE. Other than that, the 12 old V-4900 still works & runs GREAT on legacy drivers, and even though it wasn't built for gaming, the FirePro V4900 can STILL RUN 24% of the top 10,000 PC games. It will also run 11% of these games at the recommended or best experience levels.

Now I'm not comparing AMD to nVidea, I'm stating what AMD can do from personal experiences, and focusing on "you get what you pay for". I've probably pulled at least as many fried Radeon based graphics cards as I did G Force for abusive friends and family. ?

AMD FirePro's aren't rated, or bench tested for gamers, and their drivers are specifically designed for tweaking performance to your needs and tuning your workstation for DCC  (digital content creators). You can even configure it plug a thunderbolt audio interface into one of the FirePro's DisplayPorts and it will bypass the AMD audio drivers run completely independently in it's own PCI buss. I have tried this with my UA Apollo I use with my Mac for Pro Tools, but it really doesn't do any better than my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 does for CbB where the AMD audio drivers are disabled. But the Apollo's onboard FX really shine on the Mac and helps considerably. Only thing the FirePro does for CbB is make it look prettier. All audio it processed thru the Focusrite's dedicated ASIO drivers smoothly @ a respectably ultra stable 6 ms latency @  industry standard 24 bit/48k/Hz with a very comfortable "set it and forget about it "128 buffer size. I can set latency to .06 ms, but have yet to find any "Practical" reason other than bragging rights to do so. It didn't "sound" any "better" AND it made CPU work 20-25% harder then it had to..? That's like recording @  24bit/192 k/Hz. Which I did try once just to see if I could do it. I could, it happened, but I wasn't impressed, nor was anyone else so there was no appreciable reason to do it again. On the contrary, it proved to be a HUGE waste of time and hard drive space. A "just because ya can doesn't mean ya should" Apiffany.  ?

I do NOT recommend FirePro graphics cards made "by" or "for" 3rd party vendors because they are typically only using FirePro GPU and building their own graphics cards around it. Some are good and quality conscience; some are bad and choose cut corners for profit margin over quality components.

 Same thing happens with nVidea  G Force (gamer) & Quadro (DCC) GPU based graphics cards, blah, blah, blah, rada, rada, if it's not mounted to an nVidea chassis, it's a crap shoot. . 

OK that being said, your newfound latency problem may not even be being caused by your graphics card.

I would unplug the Samsung 4K TV and see if that solves the latency problem. Televisions tend to use 4K "i "(interlace) technology to UP sample video to "look like" or appear to be 4K and use variable refresh rates running somewhere between 30 h/z- 60 h/z depending on original video quality. Everything looks "Good" or more accurately, close to the "same" quality. 

Computer monitors are typically 4K "p" (pixel) and lock into whatever refresh rate speed they are capable of.  Typically, in a sample rate solid, steady range of 60 h/z -120 h/z. With 4Kp unless you choose to auto correct, You SEE whatever quality you get without corrections.

Unless you "force" your Samsung into a steady frequency range synced to the speed of the computer monitors you are creating a LOT of  EXTRA HEAVY LIFTING processing WORK on any computer's CPU and graphics card GPU will experience glitching & latency issues.

 

OR MAYBE.... The problems is with WINDOWS annoying habit of occasionally deciding what's best for you.. ? Have you checked for driver updates for your graphics card recently from nVidea? Don't rely on Windows "Device Manager" or Windows Update to do this for you. Either get a credible driver updater utility app or report to the nVidea Mothership yourself. Both are a lot cheaper than throwing new parts you don't need at your computer and hoping you hit the right target.

 

Is Windows configured for high performance? You can check to see if it is in Windows Control Panel> Hardware & Sound>Power Options. You REALLY want to make sure it is running multiple monitors with DAW's & NLE's, processing HUGE 4K video.

I've actually had this setting default back to "Balanced" with Windows Updates, and that can impact accelerated GPU performance by balancing and splitting processing tasks with computer resources.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Steev

[Sal Sorice]

I'm currently using on board Intel Graphics and am thinking of going with a dedicated video card. Noise is a pet peeve of mine, so that likely limits my choices. Not a gamer at all - this PC is for music only. 

Was looking at the AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 100-505826 8GB 256-bit GDDR5 Video Card
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XS96E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3KHIT95AWLP4N&psc=1

Any opinions? Would this improve performance? Though I'm not really having any issues, it seems like graphics could be better in Cakewalk.
I'm likely going to add a 3rd monitor or TV, so some of the options I saw above won't work.

Any other (quiet!) cards anyone can recommend?

Music PC Specs:

Win10 Pro 64-bit
Intel i9 @3.60GHz, Comet Lake 14nm
ASRock Z490 Extreme4 Motherboard
128GB RAM
(2) 2TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe Drives
(1) 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD
(1) 4TB Crucial CT4000MX500SSD1 SSD
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
Intel UHD Graphics 630
Samsung 55" Crystal 4k UHD AU 8000 HDR TV, UN55AU8000FXZA, 2021 Model, 3840x2160
Samsung 32" U32J59x Monitor, 3840x2160

Edited March 3, 2023 by Sal Sorice
added more context

[Steev]

 Wow that's quite a computer you got there buddy! And 128 GIG OF RAM!? I have the FirePro W 7100 which has the same GPU & specs as this Radeon Pro WX and LOVE IT! ?? I believe the only difference is FirePro's ships with a different driver package designed to support tweaking for DCC (digital content creation) and Radeon Pro leans more towards gaming. Both are extremely powerful and extremely quiet, and "vividly" support Cakewalk's enhanced graphics. ????

Also I think it's important to note that the AMD "W" series graphics cards were released in 2016 which means it's PCIe v3, so are getting considered "dated" by gamers now that PCIe v4 has been released.

However, being it's most likely humanly impossible for us non-gamers to tell the difference, I believe this  is a GREAT VALUE @ approx 50% OFF

[Sal Sorice]

Thanks Steev! I ended up trying (and returning) this card:

MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 3050 8GB GDRR6

I got latency issues (per LatencyMon) - which I never got with the internal graphics card. I'm going to stay with internal graphics for now, as I don't game and can't notice much lag, etc. when working in Cakewalk with the internal graphics. I may eventually add a third monitor - at that point I might have to re-visit adding a graphics card.