MIX BUS

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:29 PM, Bapu said:

Maybe. But case in point.

Watched a video with that Whitesea guy and Glen Fricker do a test of a free Distressor, Slate Distressor and a real Distressor.

The free was hands down dismissed as far inferior to the Slate and the Slate was considered 'pretty good' but it was decided that the real thing was the real thing by far.

That in part drove my decision to give a hybrid system a try. Worst case scenario if I'm not satisfied; I can resell the gear as it all respected hardware on the intertubes.

The huge issue with comparing analog gear which is composed of a ton of components, like the Distressor, and the software is that you can't claim a "reference" sound for the hardware. You're not gonna find two units of said hardware which sound the exactly same. So, the claim of a plugin not sounding like "the real thing" becomes a really weak argument IMO.

[whoisp]

7 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

The huge issue with comparing analog gear which is composed of a ton of components, like the Distressor, and the software is that you can't claim a "reference" sound for the hardware. You're not gonna find two units of said hardware which sound the exactly same. So, the claim of a plugin not sounding like "the real thing" becomes a really weak argument IMO.

Every Fender strat sounds different, nothing in reality is identical. In the box gives you constancy and all of this talk about the best digital compressors, preamps  and FX etc  is more about marketing and sales. Ego love sound bites of a famous Neve or Comp CLA 2A or 1176 etc even though like you said they all sound different and often repaired with different valves and transformers etc  

My point was more about people mixing into some crazy mix bus combination which often does take the life out of those sounds they are trying to emulate and the tracks going into the mix bus or buses going into the mix bus. Like you said, to then claim the plugin not sounding like the real thing. I checked my friend mixing out who was having some issues. A template he download for logic, which i don't use but obviously i know what a chin is to look at what he was doing.  He always had comp on the track, then the instrument bus, then his mix bus. So its gone through 3 comps before he does anything and wonder why things were pumping and he was buying silly priced plugins to get this neve sound lol People get bogged down in so much bullshit 

[Danny]

2 hours ago, whoisp said:

Every Fender strat sounds different, nothing in reality is identical. In the box gives you constancy and all of this talk about the best digital compressors, preamps  and FX etc  is more about marketing and sales. Ego love sound bites of a famous Neve or Comp CLA 2A or 1176 etc even though like you said they all sound different and often repaired with different valves and transformers etc  

My point was more about people mixing into some crazy mix bus combination which often does take the life out of those sounds they are trying to emulate and the tracks going into the mix bus or buses going into the mix bus. Like you said, to then claim the plugin not sounding like the real thing. I checked my friend mixing out who was having some issues. A template he download for logic, which i don't use but obviously i know what a chin is to look at what he was doing.  He always had comp on the track, then the instrument bus, then his mix bus. So its gone through 3 comps before he does anything and wonder why things were pumping and he was buying silly priced plugins to get this neve sound lol People get bogged down in so much bullshit 

That sums it up perfectly for me. Then of course you have the placebo effect as well as how things may sound "different" not necessarily "better".  It's amazing how people cling to something because they paid big money for it.

I'll never forget my hardware Manley Massive Passive. I paid a boatload of money for that thing. It sounded great. UAD comes out with the plug. I go on a mission to hear the difference. I bring my fiance in on it so there's no way I can cheat. She's a real witch when it comes to this stuff and really knows her stuff after being with me 13 years.

She messed me up so bad, the end result was "if you can't hear a difference comparing something 3 to 5 times, there isn't enough of a difference." And up for sale the hardware went. I got what I paid for it nearly.

In a world that listens through little earbuds as well as mono USB phone devices via their car speakers, (some are stereo, quite a few are NOT) they don't know about or care about quality anyway. I stopped trying to compete with commercial mixes long ago. Most sound terrible today. Benchmark me instead, you'll sound better. Lol!

At the end of the day, someone who knows what they are doing can make a mix sound great with nothing but an eq. That's where everyone should strive to be because if the sound isn't right before you print, you sit their polishing a turd for weeks and no plugin or hardware gizmo will fix that.

Spot on with the BS. Every time I see the name Steven Slate, I throw up in my mouth. Dirtiest, non transparent, over priced plugs I've ever used next to Sonnox. I can't tell you how many people sent me mixes with that stuff messing up their mixes. Upon removing them, the artifacts magically disappeared....go figure. Pilot error and over use? Maybe....but I had similar results and know a little about what I'm doing.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Danny
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[whoisp]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

At the end of the day, someone who knows what they are doing can make a mix sound great with nothing but an eq. That's where everyone should strive to be because if the sound isn't right before you print, you sit their polishing a turd for weeks and no plugin or hardware gizmo will fix that.

Exactly, gold is gold and no amount of plugs  will polish a turd. I spent one evening with my friend showing him some fundermentlay basics and a massive improvement in a week. He heard so much shit about cakewalk, he couldn't believe i used cakewalk and mainly stock. He bought a mac setup because everyone told him logic lol 

All my EQ, SAT, Comp, FX Verb and Delay is stock 90%. The only extras i use is a old Boss Studio, with built in pre amp sims and FX so i don't have latency issues for tracking vocal or guitar.   i bought Ozone 9 which is simple bus or mastering, Melodyne that i don't always use for corrections and some conversions , old vintage 76 drawer i like the sound of, got great air on it.

Yes id like to get RX10, Nectar, Soothe and Fabfilter etc but i only can justify silly money if i had money to burn. 

 

[OutrageProductions]

3 hours ago, whoisp said:

Exactly, gold is gold and no amount of plugs  will polish a turd.

Spot on. I make a very healthy living composing & scoring for film &TV with just 448 plugins, probably 300 of which I never use (most of Waves Gold Native).

Lots of NI, Spitfire & E/W. I'll mix 100 tracks with less than 40 EFX plugs.

My mastering chain is at max 5 plugs, and one of those is just metering & analysis.

It's all in knowing how to use the tools you're given and not sweatin' the small stuff.

Of course... great ears are a must, too.

[whoisp]

15 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

Spot on. I make a very healthy living composing & scoring for film &TV

This is a area i would like to get back into. I lost all my contacts at ITV when the crossover from analogue to digital in UK happened. I changed my work, my mother became ill and i like lost 10yrs before i blinked... 

I like the causal way you say "just 448 plugins" haha that tickled me but i understand many are instrument and sound plugs not just fx

[OutrageProductions]

3 hours ago, whoisp said:

I like the causal way you say "just 448 plugins" haha that tickled me but i understand many are instrument and sound plugs not just fx

I'd say it's roughly 60% instruments, 40% FX.

My income this year is gonna take a big hit due to the directors, writers, and soon maybe SAG going on strike. Probably not the best time to try to get into this genre.

[whoisp]

1 hour ago, OutrageProductions said:

I'd say it's roughly 60% instruments, 40% FX.

My income this year is gonna take a big hit due to the directors, writers, and soon maybe SAG going on strike. Probably not the best time to try to get into this genre.

I will write music for anything, does matter what it is and im sure your the same.  Done a couple of little things but Rome wasn't built in a day  

[bats brew]

"Whats people take on the mix bus?"

 

 

i'm to the point now,

where i KNOW, if i don't mix into a 'mastering chain', too many things change during my mastering.

 

so, i have a customized "MASTERING" chain that i MIX into, a mastering chain, that i put on my MAINS channel.

i have a MASTER channel, that all my individual tracks route to, either directly or more likely thru a SUB BUSS channel for each grouping of instruments, guitars, bass, vox, drums, etc.

so tracks>>Sub bus>>Master bus>>MAINS.

on my MASTER channel, i mix into a G Series SSL Compressor. set very lightly, no more than -2db reduction, it's a 'glue compressor' at this point.

 

but i have on the MAINS, a parametric EQ, Pultect EQ, another SSL compressor,  Waves L2 set with a ceiling of -0.3 and doing only 1.0 db of reduction, fast release, to just catch the first peaks that get thru, then a Waves L3 multi band limiter, for the final limiting, that i set the ceiling for about -1.0db, and push it til i get to the LUFS i want, usually about -10 to -11.

 

then i turn that all off, when i bounce my actual mix, and that target it K-18.

 

this is working currently for me, better than what i did before.

 

but it's constantly changing. 

just cuz.

Edited June 7, 2023 by bats brew