Retaining sounds of Korg PA900 after recording midi in Cakewalk

[Boney]

I connect my Korg pa900 to my computer and record the accompaniment and melody to cakewalk. 

When I play the recorded track in cakewalk it get played thru my keyboard and play the exact tones of each track.

But when I save it as midi file and play it on my keyboard, most of tracks are playing piano sounds.. How can I retain the sound information in the midi file so that it can play the correct sounds for each track in the song when I play the midi file in keyboard? 

Of course I can change the sounds in the keyboard, but then that's a tedious task to go thru the menus of keyboard and change the sounds of each track.

[Promidi]

MIDI is simply a stream of digital instructions telling a device (in this case, your Korg pa900) what notes to play (as well as changing other parameters)

What you might want to do is see if the pa900 can respond to patch change commands. 

You might need to check your pa900 user guide and look for the MIDI implementation chart.  In there, it might tell you want patch change command corresponds to the patch that you need that MIDI track to play.

Then either:

Insert the required patch change command in the MIDI track before any occurrence of notes. (I use the event view list for this)

or

Set the MIDI track’s patch and bank number to match the patch change command that recalls the patch that you need the Korg to play

An instrument definition (*.ins) file might be handy as well if you are able to locate one.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Promidi

[SirWillyDS12]

If Your Korg Pa900 is like my Kronos it will save all your Patches to a Standard Midi File... You can save your song setup on the Pa900 to a Standard Midi File... Open the midi file with Cakewalk and it will contain all the Patch Changes and the channel information... You would have to be in Sequencer Mode and have a least one note on every track you use before you save the Standard Midi File on the Pa900... You could then put those Patch changes into your midi file in Cakewalk... Then when you save it and import it back to the Korg it would contain the proper Patches...

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by SirWillyDS12

[SirWillyDS12]

No not recording on the keyboard, recording in Cakewalk... I know what you're trying to do, I do it with my Kronos... What I was saying was add "One" note to every track you use on the Pa900 and save the setup to a Standard Midi File... That small file will contain the Patches you used with just one note on every track... Basically saving the Song Setup to import into Cakewalk with the Patches you used...

[SirWillyDS12]

19 hours ago, bnyrj said:

So if I leave any track without a note, then all the tracks will be without the patch information or still I can get the tracks which got notes with patch info?

First to answer this... If you export your song setup as a Standard Midi File, all tracks that have a "note" on them will contain the Patch that you used... If you use Format 1 only the tracks that have a note on them will be saved... On my Kronos using Format 0 it will save all tracks up to the highest track number with data... E.I. If I used track 10 it will save tracks 1 -10 with or without any "Notes" but only the tracks that have notes on them will have the Patch info...

When you import the Standard Midi File into Cakewalk it puts the Patch change in the Channel Strip... A, B, and C in the image below... No need to worry about CC Numbers...

 

If you import "Instrument Definitions" into Cakewalk and select your Pa900 midi device you will have a list of all your Patches on A, B and C above... Don't know how well the "Ins" file you posted the link for transfers to your Korg...

I set my Kronos up with Instrument Definitions in Cakewalk so when I select a Patch in Cakewalk it is the Patch on my Kronos... If I import a file from my Kronos the patch names are all there... If I select them in Cakewalk and then save to Standard Midi File and load in the Kronos all the same programs... It takes some time but well worth it... The Kronos came with the "MidiQuest" editor so I can just export the Instrument Definitions from the Editor then import into Cakewalk...

You can create you own Ins file... If the Pa900 Manuel list the Patches just copy them from there... I did it with an older keyboard that I have... Pretty sure the "Instrument Definitions" page has all the details and links you need...

[bvideo]

If you chose banks/programs for your tracks in Cakewalk, they will get saved to your midi file and sent to your PA900 before playing notes. But maybe you set up the sounds in your PA900 instead of in Cakewalk. If that's so, playing the MIDI file has no information how to set up your sounds. Whatever sounds the PA900 already has set up by default will play, probably piano. You can:

1. see if the PA900 has a way to save a setup of your sounds, then load that setup when you play that MIDI file.

2. look into how to set up bank/program numbers in cakewalk. First, see if there is a publicly available .ins file for the PA900. And check the cakewalk manual for how to install and use it. Otherwise, try to read out the bank and program numbers from your PA900 setup and enter those raw numbers into each track's bank and program number widgets in the headers of the tracks. Either way is how Cakewalk knows which sounds to play in your PA900.

3. there may be a way to transmit your PA900 setup into cakewalk so it can be made part of the MIDI file. That involves transmitting a sysex dump from the PA900 into your Cakewalk project so that when you save the project as a midi file, that setup dump will be sent to the PA900 in preparation for playing back with the correct sounds. See your PA900 manual for how to send the sysex dump and see the CW manual for recording it and putting it in the song.

[Boney]

10 hours ago, Promidi said:

MIDI is simply a stream of digital instructions telling a device (in this case, your Korg pa900) what notes to play (as well as changing other parameters)

What you might want to do is see if the pa900 can respond to patch change commands. 

You might need to check your pa900 user guide and look for the MIDI implementation chart.  In there, it might tell you want patch change command corresponds to the patch that you need that MIDI track to play.

Then either:

Insert the required patch change command in the MIDI track before any occurrence of notes. (I use the event view list for this)

or

Set the MIDI track’s patch and bank number to match the patch change command that recalls the patch that you need the Korg to play

An instrument definition (*.ins) file might be handy as well if you are able to locate one.

I got the idea, But I am not that familiar with midi program change, patch, bank etc. I just record and play only in the keyboard, So these settings were not relevant for me. But now I found editing the song in cakewalk too easy. Now I need to find how to get these things work 

I will share some links of PA900's manual. If possible please check and let me know how those data can help me to get the correct sound on the each midi tracks in the keyboard.

 

MIDI Controllers - https://www.manualslib.com/manual/837545/Korg-Pa-900.html?page=434#manual

 

I think this is the midi control data you are talking about.

Connecting Pa900 to an External Sequencer - https://www.manualslib.com/manual/837545/Korg-Pa-900.html?page=315#manual

Sounds - https://www.manualslib.com/manual/837545/Korg-Pa-900.html?page=322#manual

I think I can make an ins file from this data

 

[Boney]

1 hour ago, SirWillyDS12 said:

If Your Korg Pa900 is like my Kronos it will save all your Patches to a Standard Midi File... You can save your song setup on the Pa900 to a Standard Midi File... Open the midi file with Cakewalk and it will contain all the Patch Changes and the channel information... You would have to be in Sequencer Mode and have a least one note on every track you use before you save the Standard Midi File on the Pa900... You could then put those Patch changes into your midi file in Cakewalk... Then when you save it and import it back to the Korg it would contain the proper Patches...

 

I think if I am recording it on keyboard and editing that midi file on cakewalk it may retain the patches. But I am recording it in cakewalk itself by connecting the keyboard to computer. I play the style (auto accompaniment) with melody and cakewalk record all the track at once. So I don't jave to transfer the midi file to pc for editing. I get the convenience of an advanced sequencer in cakewalk compared to the keyboard.

I am looking for the option to record in cakewalk and retain the program information in the saved midi file. When I record and play it from cakewalk thru keyboard it's playing correctly, means the song/midi has the data of Patch. When I save it as midi file and take it to keyboard it's not retaining that data.

Now I am preparing the instrument definition file for Korg pa900. Not yet succeeded, but has improvement. I face problem of categorising the banks, I want it instrument wise, but the banks are mixed...  means bank 00 got different kind of instrument. I want to prepare the group based on the instrument and not in the group of cc32 which is 00, 01, 02 etc. That's how I see in the ins file of pa500 I got from Internet. I am trying edit for pa900. Manual has all the data required,  but still experimenting..

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/837545/Korg-Pa-900.html?page=322#manual

[Boney]

13 minutes ago, SirWillyDS12 said:

No not recording on the keyboard, recording in Cakewalk... I know what you're trying to do, I do it with my Kronos... What I was saying was add "One" note to every track you use on the Pa900 and save the setup to a Standard Midi File... That small file will contain the Patches you used with just one note on every track... Basically saving the Song Setup to import into Cakewalk with the Patches you used...

So if I leave any track without a note, then all the tracks will be without the patch information or still I can get the tracks which got notes with patch info?

[Boney]

And when you say Standard Midi File, it is midi 0 or 1?

[Boney]

http://www.korgpa.sk/ins/korg_pa4x_all_basic_2015v2.ins

Please check this ins file. You can see its grouped based on bank (c32) number. Is there an option to group it based on the instrument in ins file?

[Boney]

Thank you all for the replies.

Let me tell you about my progress in this subject. 

The ins file I got works as expected. Initially I was looking for how to group the patch list instrument wise. Then I found patch browser where I can sort and search, so it's fine.

Now I am looking for an option to get the patch n bank details recorded in the midi data when I record the song from pa900 to cakewalk. 

I know how to do it in cakewalk. I can do it either in patch list in track pane or patch browser in inspector pane.

It was nice if it gets recorded to the midi file when I record the song. As pa900 is an arranger, I record the melody+styles (accompaniment tracks 9 to 16) same time. So its tedious to find out the patch from keyboard and assign it in cakewalk for all the tracks.
 

[bvideo]

I wonder what you are actually doing in Cakewalk. Almost sounds like you are composing on the PA900 and just using cakewalk to create a midi file. But it looks like you don't really need cakewalk for that. Isn't there some way to save your PA900 composition to a midi file on a local thumb drive or to local storage? Most likely, that file will have all the required sound setup. It looks like you can make the PA900 look like a hard drive to your PC. Then save your composition to the PA900 internal storage and then copy midi files from your PA900 to your PC.

I looked very briefly at the manual, and it looks like you can do without Cakewalk. Or if you want to use cakewalk, it looks like you can configure your synth to send program/bank changes so CW will have them for writing a midi file. (See pg 121)

[Boney]

Ok let me explain...

Yes as you said I can record the whole song in PA900. But why I want to include cakewalk in the process? Because:-

I get a lot more convenience in recording and editing the song.

Let say I have 200 bars in a song. In cakewalk I can record small portions of song part by part continuously. 

If I want to do this in pa900 I have to go through the recording process cycle for each portions. Then I have to copy the songs to computer. Open the first portion in cakewalk. Then import each midi file to the cakewalk project and ensure I am placing it on correct measure. So have to go through a lot of process.

In cakewalk I get a big screen and can access different functions easily. I can record the first portion and continue from end for the second portion without going through all the above steps. Once I am satisfied with track I can save it as midi and copy it to keyboard and play it.

The problem in the beginning of this thread is solved with ins file.

Now I have different problems. I found that the settings(midi input of each track, patch assigned, etc.) are changed when I reopen the cakewalk project. This I noticed when I get a lot of notes in each Midi channel than what exactly each channel is playing. Then I realised that the midi input of each channel is changed to "All input or omini"

I again changed all the channels input to its corresponding midi channels and recorded it, and it worked perfectly.

So now I am looking:

1) To retain settings (midi input, bank, patch, etc) of tracks when I reopen the project.

For this an option I see now is to manually add a patch change event in the event list of each track, then it will be followed even though the settings in track is changed.

2) An option to get the patch info from pa900 to the track while recording in cakewalk.

If you have better ideas please let me know.

Edited January 9, 2023 by bnyrj

[bvideo]

In the manual, it seemed I could see a playback mode (how to transmit your composition) to an external synth|host (cf Cakewalk) in such a way as to transmit the bank/prog numbers. When cakewalk receives them, it will populate the track header widgets with the corresponding names from your .ins file.

As far as your latest problem, it is best to save your project as a cakewalk native project (.cwp) for reopening to continue editing. You can write your .mid file separately for sending directly to your synth. A .mid file can't hold all the information of a Cakewalk project, so is not good for revisiting / reediting.

[Boney]

Thanks

 

I will check pa900 manual for what you said.

 

Quote

As far as your latest problem, it is best to save your project as a cakewalk native project (.cwp) for reopening to continue editing. You can write your .mid file separately for sending directly to your synth. A .mid file can't hold all the information of a Cakewalk project, so is not good for revisiting / reediting

Regarding this, I am saving it as cakewalk project only and still it change