How to use melodic MIDI loops to follow MIDI Chord track?

[Misha]

Hi Folks. 

I have some melodic MIDI loops that I want to use in Cakewalk.  My average composition is audio  tracks and imported MIDI chord (block chords) track.

  Is there a way to make these MIDI loops transpose / follow chord changes according to my MIDI chord track within Cakewalk?

Thank you.

[reginaldStjohn]

Not in Cakewalk, A chord track has been requested but does not yet exist.

[Misha]

Thank you for the reply!

"A chord track has been requested but does not yet exist." I do remember that request... I believe I vote for that.

 

Maybe somebody can suggest a workaround., as I do have a MIDI chord (block chords) track available. Perhaps there is a way to tie it with melodic MIDI loop? 

 

Thanks.

[msmcleod]

You could take a look at Groove clips combined with pitch markers.   Pitch markers will transpose any groove clip by the pitch specified in the marker. This will work with both audio and MIDI groove clips.

The only things to you need to be aware of:

1. You need to tell it the reference pitch, so if your source chords are constantly changing, you'll need to split the clips up for each chord and tell each clip what chord it's actually playing.
2. Groove clips can only transpose - they can't change major->minor or vice versa.
3. For MIDI notes, make sure the markers appear BEFORE the notes you want transposed are actually playing (which I didn't do in the example below!).  MIDI notes cannot be transposed after they've been triggered.  Audio clips can be transposed at any point however.

[msmcleod]

Another solution might be to use Articulations, but you'd end up having to make a LOT of them, catering from every source to destination chord.
 

[Misha]

msmcleod,

Thank you for extensive reply!  Looks like there are many hoops to jump through.  Not exactly the workflow I was after.

A musical friend, who uses Studio One, says that with their "Chord track" you just drop that melodic midi loop and you are done. It will follow chords, etc.

I do remember quite a few people requested Chord Track for Cakewalk time ago....  I wonder if it is planned / seriously considered? I guess only the Chief baker Noel would know  

[Misha]

Will bump this with two more items.

 

Does anybody know if this was the latest Chord Track request thread, or was there another, bigger thread?

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Since Cakewalk doesn't have in house Chord Track at the moment, maybe somebody can suggest a VST that can be used in similar manner with flexible routing.  Idea is to drop a midi clip from Cakewalk's browser to a track, so that follows/transposes these clips according to MIDI chord track that sits on another track, without surgeries,  except maybe for length of the clip. 

 

Thank you.

[User 905133]

29 minutes ago, Misha said:

Since Cakewalk doesn't have in house Chord Track at the moment, maybe somebody can suggest a VST that can be used in similar manner with flexible routing.  Idea is to drop a midi clip from Cakewalk's browser to a track, so that follows/transposes these clips according to MIDI chord track that sits on another track, without surgeries,  except maybe for length of the clip. 

I am struggling to parse this. 

• Are you saying you want to be able to
  • (1) drop a midi clip from Cakewalk's Media Browser [presumably with note data aligned as full or partial measure / block chords]
  • (2) onto an audio track
  • (3) so that the audio is resampled [transposed] based on the midi notes
  • (4) with the audio stretched or shrunk so the length of the resulting stretch/shrunk audio is the same length as the midi clip? 

Edited December 19, 2022 by User 905133
corrections made

[Misha]

1) I am talking about MIDI clips that I can audition in Cakewalk  Media Browser  YES

2)onto a MIDI track

3)Not audio, but MIDI transposed according to a Midi (block) chord track that sits on another MIDI track.

4)so it can be routed to a sound producing synth (Kontakt, Halion, etc.)

-----------------------------------------------------------

I came to computer recording from hardware arrangers such as Yamaha arranger keyboards & Yamaha modules such as QY 70/100.  To explain this in simple terms... These arrangers had a library of melodic & rhythmic parts that were made into pre-made styles.  But also, these arrangers allowed to assemble a fully customized style by threating these phrases  / lines that made up a style just as midi clips. You would simply make your style by combining and re-voicing almost any parses from the pool (of all styles). With exceptions of combining phrases with different time signatures and a few other insignificant nuances.

There are plenty of plugins that will follow a MIDI chord track (Scaler, Kontakt, Halion and many many more) However I am not familiar with any that can take a midi clip  placed on the MIDI track (of the Cakewalk)  and transpose it automatically according to a MIDI (block) Chord track that sits on another MIDI track (in the Cakewalk)

 

I hope that clarifies what I want to achieve.  

 

[User 905133]

13 minutes ago, Misha said:

1) I am talking about MIDI clips that I can audition in Cakewalk  Media Browser  YES     2) onto a MIDI track . . . .

I came to computer recording from hardware arrangers such as Yamaha arranger keyboards & Yamaha modules such as QY 70/100. . . .

Thanks for the clarification; now I understand.  

I still have some Roland "Intelligent Arranger" Sound modules (CA-30, RA-30), so I understand the concept very well!  I created Instrument Definitions for changing control parameters and used block chords in a dedicated MIDI track placed there manually in the staff view.  I haven't used them in years, but maybe I will try your method--a folder of  chords and progressions in the Media Browser to drop onto the midi chord track.   

I just have to find the right wall-warts!!!

Edited December 19, 2022 by User 905133
changes

[Misha]

User 905133,

1 hour ago, User 905133 said:

I still have some Roland "Intelligent Arranger" ...

Don't    I mentioned physical arrangers as a case study only.  Just a concept I am trying to achieve in Cakewalk. With so many MIDI VSTs, there must be one which can do this stuff. 

 

Thanks.

 

[msmcleod]

You should take a look at Band in a Box - it makes most of these arrangers look like they're in the stone age.

[Glenn Stanton]

yeah BIAB is awesome - i use both the standalone and the plugin versions. 

[Misha]

 

A proud BIAB user of 5 years.  One of the best music tool discoveries since Cakewalk

You would think it would do what I want to accomplish with MIDI phrases? Surprisingly not.   

Well.. .not completely true. I looked into it. It has a "tool" but it is very convoluted and buggy, it was not specifically designed for it.  And it doesn't have a Media Browser to audition these MIDI phrases.  So you kind of doing it "blindly".  Some MIDI libraries have great phrases that I would never be able to play on keyboard, but to use them in existing composition would require a lot of elbow grease.  

----

Until Cakewalk bakes Chord a Chord track, I am on a quest to find a middle man solution in the form of a VST that could do that.  The technology/logic of hardware arrangers is ancient,  not sure why I am having a hard time of finding a VST that can do similar inside of DAW. 

[User 905133]

10 hours ago, Misha said:

I came to computer recording from hardware arrangers such as Yamaha arranger keyboards & Yamaha modules such as QY 70/100.  To explain this in simple terms... These arrangers had a library of melodic & rhythmic parts that were made into pre-made styles . . . . [emphasis added]

10 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Thanks for the clarification; now I understand.  

I still have some Roland "Intelligent Arranger" Sound modules (CA-30, RA-30), so I understand the concept very well!  I created Instrument Definitions for changing control parameters and used block chords in a dedicated MIDI track placed there manually in the staff view. 

9 hours ago, Misha said:

I mentioned physical arrangers as a case study only.  Just a concept I am trying to achieve in Cakewalk. With so many MIDI VSTs, there must be one which can do this stuff. 

5 hours ago, msmcleod said:

You should take a look at Band in a Box - it makes most of these arrangers look like they're in the stone age.

3 hours ago, Misha said:

The technology/logic of hardware arrangers is ancient,  not sure why I am having a hard time of finding a VST that can do similar inside of DAW. 

Just in case it wasn't clear from my wording, I was not suggesting using ancient, stone age arrangers as a substitute for a 21st century fully developed and integrated DAW-based Chord Track.  Moreover, I was relating to the comments explaining how they worked (as if to say, "I understand in part where you are coming from.").  

10 hours ago, User 905133 said:

I haven't used them in years . . . .

I started to type decades (not years), but I didn't want to date myself.  To be clear, by mentioning the ancient, stone age arrangers I was not intending to offer a solution or an alternative method. 

Nevertheless, thanks for the clarifications as they led me to some additional ideas to implement for my own personal workflow. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by User 905133
edits