Soundpaint 2.0 H.A. L.

[Larry Shelby]

It's his job to berate the competition while lauding his own product.  The REAL problem
for him is that Kontakt is WELL ESTABLISHED, with DECADES of of vendors and users who find it indispensable,
so THAT is his "main obstacle" to overcome, and that's not very likely considering how bloated the
Soundpaint libraries are!  But I wish him the best of luck!

[PavlovsCat]

7 hours ago, abacab said:

I agree. That sample footprint is my only complaint, and my hesitation to replace any standard Kontakt or other libraries with SP at this point. Kontakt is probably the best universal solution for sample based instruments we have at our disposal today. Use what you've got!

But I think that Kontakt's days may be numbered as an "industry standard".  That idea may cause some anxiety for those that are heavily invested in that ecosystem. But change will be incremental, so no worries for now. My thoughts are that Kontakt is a victim of its own success. Now that it is a virtual "operating system" for scripted sample libraries, Native Instruments hands are tied to supporting an ecosystem of developers and libraries that are dependent on how it works today. NI must tread carefully with any innovations or new features that may create incompatibilities, and thus kill the "goose that laid the golden egg"!

That slow motion is leaving the competitive door wide open for nimble, creative innovators in the virtual instrument realm. I think that innovations in hybrid sampler/physical modeling is probably next. Just consider what an Impulse Response (IR) can do in a convolution reverb or a modeled speaker cabinet emulation. You just take an IR and you can re-create the space that the IR was recorded in.

With the increasing processing capacity of modern CPUs, maybe someday soon that is how virtual instruments will create real-world sounds instead of "deep sampling". Start from a modeled sound source and just a few snippets of an actual recorded instrument, then reproduce the many articulations needed to play a "real" instrument!

 

I now understand why you made an attack on me after I made a post and called what I wrote BS. Because you believed everything Troels' said in his video as gospel and for some reason you bring a level of emotionality and anger into your opinions with those who don't agree with you, which is very different from my style. For me, this is pretty unemotional territory, so I'm purely analytical. While KONTAKT is the sampler I use most often (I probably don't have a project I've done without it), I don't own NI stock and if someone comes along with a truly superior sampler, I'm on board -- unquestionably. And I also use SoundPaint, SampleTank UVI, Noiz, sfzorando, and others,  

If Troels can create a truly superior sampler to KONTAKT, I'm on board. If he pushes the envelope --- I think that's great news even for those who never use SoundPaint. And, as I've shared, I own several SoundPaint libraries and I LOVE SoundPaint for creating custom programs and patches. It excels at that, IMO. But SoundPaint, in my experience and from the insights I've gleaned from expert developers who, in my experience, have better coded libraries than anything I own from 8Dio, including SoundPaint, have told me that SoundPaint, even with the new HAL version, is not a giant leap from KONTAKT and that Troels' made some inaccurate and misleading statements regarding KONTAKT and as I shared earlier (developers are well aware) in his video in constructing a strawman intended to position SoundPaint as the innovative successor to KONTAKT, which he presented as an inferior and outdated sampler.  It is possible to "give them a chance" while not abandoning critical thinking skills. I'm, no doubt, still going to buy more 8Dio and SoundPaint libraries when they interest me -- and I hope that they end up fulfilling the promises that Troels makes. But to date, that simply isn't the case. My current experience with SoundPaint is that it's fun to use but it's not in the same league as KONTAKT (but that could be completely due to the current libraries not having great, intuitive scripting and sounding as good as some of the best KONTAKT library equivalents). But I would welcome if that changes.  Having spent a career working with engineers, including software engineers, product designers who've received an a good deal of patents, you should ask yourself, if Troels' has indeed made groundbreaking innovations as he asserts, surely he just filed some patents, right?  Critical thinking skills result in asking those kinds of questions. 
 

Edited November 17, 2022 by PavlovsCat

[abacab]

8 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

Because you believed everything Troels' said in his video as gospel

Not at all. He thinks like I do, and I've imagined things this way long before I knew of him and his products. I'm a futurist and a dreamer, and have made a career out of IT since the 70's, with synthesizers as a hobby since the 80's.

Let's agree to disagree. And I still think your opinion is B.S., but that's nothing personal. I like you!

Edited November 16, 2022 by abacab

[PavlovsCat]

7 hours ago, abacab said:

Not at all. He thinks like I do, and I've imagined things this way long before I knew of him and his products. I'm a futurist and a dreamer, and have made a career out of IT since the 70's, with synthesizers as a hobby since the 80's.

Let's agree to disagree. And I still think your opinion is B.S, but that nothing personal. I like you!

Well, it is possible to disagree with someone without being disparaging. You know, that whole civility thing people once believed in. I'm still a fan of civility. Larry and some others here have been absolutely savage on 8Dio/SoundPaint for their large file sizes and for some reason I'm the only person you went after. 

On the topic of being a futurist and a dreamer, I am definitely in that category too.  I spent years working professionally as a musician, am  a writer who's had a major book deal, I've started multiple publications. founded multiple businesses. All of it is rooted in creating things that weren't there before. And I appreciate that part of Troels. He's a very talented composer and I'm a long time 8Dio customer and that includes SoundPaint too. However, it is possible to appreciate that and also to not suspend one's critical thinking skills. Troels habit of exaggerating and overhyping his products -- and in this case, creating a strawman containing a false representation of KONTAKT's scripting capabilities -- being less than truthful is not part of his being a futurist and dreamer. it is part of his being an overhyping promoter of his products. Now it's not uncommon for entrepreneurs to overhype their offerings, but I think it warrants being called out. Having spent a career, including working with scientists, engineers, inventors and designers -- including for a company that has held more tech patents than most other companies -- there's another giveaway to the overhype of breakthrough technology -- and anyone experienced working with innovators recognizes it. If an entrepreneur is truly responsible for creating a tech innovation, patents would absolutely be filed. That is a fact.  

Anyhow, I'm calling BS on your calling BS.

Edited November 17, 2022 by PavlovsCat

[Technostica]

I'm not that bothered about the size of the libraries with 4TB SATA and PCIe M.2 drives available for ~$300  right now.
So a 50GB library is costing less than $4 of disk space.
Considering how cheap the libraries are, even if they are twice as large as the competition, that's only an extra $2 for storage for a 50GB library, so overall they are still cheap.

They do have the benefit of allowing you to create patches using multiple PARTS from multiple SP libraries.
This is what is exciting some people due to the potential for creating hybrid patches from a wide range of sources.
I'm not a fan of sampled synths generally, but in this case they make sense as building blocks for hybrid patches.

I tend to keep away from new platforms so haven't dived in yet.
They have released a ton of libraries in their first year.
So even though they are cheap individually, they add up already to well over $2k and they still haven't released the large orchestral libraries.
Those will seemingly be very large in size.
 

[abacab]

37 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

However, it is possible to appreciate that and also to not suspend one's critical thinking skills.

Haha, never! And that's why I was calling you out! ?

[JoeGBradford]

Peter & abacab - time for a friendly truce ? Love you both! 

[PavlovsCat]

10 hours ago, JoeGBradford said:

Peter & abacab - time for a friendly truce ? Love you both! 

Aww, thanks. 

I don't appreciate when Abacab singles out my posts and calls my posts BS or mischaracterizes my statements because I can be critical of something. Larry and some others posted some very harsh statements about SoundPaint but Abacab didn't single them out, and disparaage them and mischaracterize their statements as he did me and it would be disingenuous if I pretended this wasn't a pattern, because has a history of doing this to my posts. Not consistently, but time to time, there are these hostile  posts of his directed at me that cross a line. I don't do that to others, I say something if someone else does it to others and I don't like it being done to me. So in the end, I really don't care if someone that obnoxious says he likes me. We're grown ups. I don't really care if someone who serially makes hostile posts directed at me writes that they like me as if they excuses their bad behavior. I call BS on that. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by PavlovsCat

[Kal Elle]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:08 PM, abacab said:

I think his tone was more of a dreamer who is honestly attempting to think outside of the box!

Yeah, I watched the whole video and I think Troels was really just speaking his mind.
From what I've gathered from his videos he's a kind man and very talented.
Kudos to him for trying something different.

[BTP]

2.0.1 aka "beta1" is available now.

https://soundpaint.com/pages/free-engine

And the first legato libraries have been released.

https://soundpaint.com/products/tenor-saxophone

https://soundpaint.com/products/alto-flute

[Grem]

I say props to him. If he can come up with a better UI than what Kontakt has, I'm in. 

I was a late "adapter" of Kontakt.  My biggest gripe is they don't make it easy to see the UI. It needs updating bad. Really bad. 

And they have not even made an effort in that direction 

I have some SP stuff and I like it.  Sounds good to me. 

And of course, there is always SampleTank!!

[abacab]

 

[Tezza]

I would love to download large libraries, for me the disk space isn't really the issue, I can always get bigger hard drives. It's the horrific internet connection I have at home on my DAW. If I started downloading now, maybe next year I would get to play the library....maybe. The advantage with the Kontakt stuff for me is that most of it comes on a hard drive....easy peezy.

[TheMaartian]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:58 AM, Technostica said:

...

They do have the benefit of allowing you to create patches using multiple PARTS from multiple SP libraries.
This is what is exciting some people due to the potential for creating hybrid patches from a wide range of sources.
I'm not a fan of sampled synths generally, but in this case they make sense as building blocks for hybrid patches.

...

Check out Unify by PluginGuru.com. You may be able to do this inside of Unify with Kontakt libraries that don't come with Unify patches.

Unify by PluginGuru

Edited November 19, 2022 by John Maar

[Technostica]

3 hours ago, John Maar said:

Check out Unify by PluginGuru.com. You may be able to do this inside of Unify with Kontakt libraries that don't come with Unify patches.

Unify by PluginGuru

Thanks. I am aware of that but not the finer details.

SP allows you to use samples from various libraries at a very low level which couldn't be achieved via external methods.
You can have samples from up to four libraries in one patch and even morph between them.

[abacab]

5 hours ago, Technostica said:

You can have samples from up to four libraries in one patch and even morph between them.

I like Soundpaint and it's unique abilities, but just thought to mention here that Luftrum Bioscape (Kontakt library) also lets you bring in up to 4 samples (in layers A, B, C, D) in one patch (snapshot), including your own samples.

Even though it doesn't have the morphing technology like SP, there are a lot of sound mangulating options available in Bioscape, including the XY pad, envelopes and filters, modulation and effects. The XY pad will crossfade between the layers. This motion can also be recorded.

[simon]

1 hour ago, abacab said:

I like Soundpaint and it's unique abilities

I have to say I quite like how it sounds too - I haven't got many libraries for it but the ones I do have sound great

[Hidden Symmetry]

That legato sax sounds quite nice, better than most for that style..Wish there was a demo though, that's  needed to hear how it actually sounds, feels & fits into projects. Price is fair if it ticks all the boxes.

[Technostica]

2 hours ago, abacab said:

I like Soundpaint and it's unique abilities, but just thought to mention here that Luftrum Bioscape (Kontakt library) also lets you bring in up to 4 samples (in layers A, B, C, D) in one patch (snapshot), including your own samples.

Even though it doesn't have the morphing technology like SP, there are a lot of sound mangulating options available in Bioscape, including the XY pad, envelopes and filters, modulation and effects. The XY pad will crossfade between the layers. This motion can also be recorded.

I nearly bought Bioscape a couple of times, but I have a few Soniccouture libraries which overlap with it so I passed.
I had a code from signing up for a newsletter I think and it stacked with sale pricing which made it tempting.

There are quite a few tools which use 4 layers and can import samples.
I think the difference with SP is that you can incorporate complex multisamples from very detailed libraries.
That's a rarity, although Sine may offer something similar!
Not sure as I only started demoing it in the last few days as interested in Drones.
OT came back to my query with this:

"You can also switch and morph freely between different articulations on the same instrument with the polymap feature in SINE."

I need to check this out, although it suggests that it only works within a single instrument which is much more limited than SP.
OT are of course expensive though.
The Creative Soundpacks bundle looks intriguing, but €499 + VAT is a kick in the ******.
Whereas, as I have a lot of 8Dio stuff and they are offering crossgrades so it's a cheaper platform.
They sent me crossgrade vouchers for the two new instruments, so I could buy both for a combined $25.