PA Diezel VH-4

[Larry Shelby]

Hate to be a stick in the mud, BUT, if they can have the option
for "Up" and "Down" with "arrows" on the menu, then those assignments should be easily
converted to "Mouse Wheel Up" and "Mouse Wheel Down" without too 
much recoding.  I used to write Access Databases for Ford, so obviously the 
Windows API somewhere must allow for it.  As I said, many "lesser" DAW's 
have it. For example, in Harrison Mixbus 5,  you don't even have to use the mouse wheel!
It has Auto-scroll!!!  Just move the cursor up and the menu scrolls up, move it down,
and the menu scrolls down!  AND it ALSO has the "up" and "down" arrows as an option!

That being said, I might accept that it would require some "recoding" that they may not be 
inclined to do, but saying that "it just can't be done" is pretty ridiculous.

[Larry Shelby]

Ok, of the 5 DAW's I have installed at the moment, 3 have the mouse scroll feature
for plugin menu's

Studio One 4.5
Harrison Mixbus 5
Acoustica Mixcraft Pro (auto-scroll - BONUS)

Pro Tools 12 has the "flyout - wrap around" type menu where, when
you open the Plugin Menu, the menu will fill a column until it's full, then start
a new column on screen until full, etc...where you don't have to scroll
because they are all on screen, and while momentarily more "intrusive",
because they can fill the whole screen, is still a less time constraining/
more effective option.

CbB is the only one that has solely the "up" and "down" arrow option,
where if you have more plugins than will fit "on one column of menu",
then you are stuck moving to the "arrows" and consumes time
waiting until you find what you are looking for, and then you have to
move off the button, and select the plugin.

Just FYI....

Ok...you can throw rocks now!

Edited July 14, 2019 by cclarry

[Grem]

24 minutes ago, cclarry said:

Ok...you can throw rocks now

Won't ever throw any rocks your way Larry ol buddy!!

It's not as easy as your saying it is. That's all I am saying. There is a reason they are still using it, as Mark has suggested. Mark could explain it better than I could, he's worked with that kind of stuff.

1 hour ago, cclarry said:

then those assignments should be easily
converted to "Mouse Wheel Up" and "Mouse Wheel Down" without too 
much recoding. 

Not if Windows code don't support it. And what you think is the 'same menu' in the other DAW's maybe totally different code. Or as Piotr was saying, libs ( I think he's refering to ready-made-libraries)

But after all said and done, the whole point I was getting at..... putting in a feature request has already been done. We got 'User Created Plugin Menus,' and 'Most Recent Plugins Used' features added.  I think that's about it for that feature request! : )

I will also add, that I would be thrilled to be wrong!!!

[Piotr]

11 hours ago, Grem said:

I agree with you 100%. But you do have to remember, this was implemented when nobody had hundreds of plugins!! Ahh the old days!! : )

True. I can understand it. But now we have 2019 year. I believe keeping old solution at all cost is not good approach. DAW should adapt to changed circumstances.

 

11 hours ago, Grem said:

And I do like PA amp sims. I got the Rack and a few others also. But that IR menu is a PITFA!! I can understand Noel haveing come to Cakewalk as a new dev and this menu was already in place. He's stuck with it. Maybe something he wouldn't have used for all the reasons you stated.

To be honest I believe even for some reason they cannot (very curious what would it be) cannot use custom control lib or already made by 3parties there is always a way to make users life easier.

Of course I understand compatibility restriction but let's be fully honest they abandoned 32-bit version without hesitation, right?  It was much dramatic decision than abandon dinosaur ages control

11 hours ago, Grem said:

But for PA to use this nightmare of a menu knowing how many IR's there was going to be, is just plain bad design, I agree.

I beta tested for a small amp sim outfit that had lots of IR's in the sim. And using that menu was not an option. They ended up creating a totally different program to accommodate all the IR options. Why did they go to that extreme? Because the beta testers complained about it enough that they saw the logic in what we were saying.

Now PA can't tell me, not one of their beta testers didn't complain about that menu. I refuse to believe that. And you are saying that you have also told them something, so I have to assume others have said something too. But still, there it is. You just gotta SMFH!!! : )

Well, I believe beta testers checked all possible options  so maybe they were provided only with few IR while testing So they had no reason to complain. ?

But anyway turning off use of IRs is the most twisted and annoying way I ever seen in any amp sim. And I have/tested them a lot... I am GAS addicted and searching for different sounds for my guitars in virtual environment . You can easily guess what it means

Is it possible any beta tester liked such solution? Hm, maybe they didn't invested in their own 3party IRs and ignore the option?

What surprise me the most. They should be aware how their competitors do this. So what was a source for decision to implement it in such annoying way? ?

 

[Joakim]

On 7/12/2019 at 6:42 PM, Piotr said:

Ha, it is really cool amp,  I love how it sounds...    

But everybody should test it by oneself. I don't consider myself as expert about real amps sound as I have only one and rarely using it, living in flat with many neighbors around.

But to be honest .... what is annoying me awfully...  

Unfortunately PA with every their amp sim doing 3 very lame things:

1/ lack of input control - level of input drastically change tone so it completely hard to understand 

and workflow killers:

2/ drop-down list - it is horrible control for long list as we get control which is much higher than screen so it is so painful searching it and changing fro instance from item #34 to #47  Unfortunately their 'technology' with automatic moving to the next after bars is not sufficient in real. Nice as helper but not fixing the problem. Should be different control letting to pick what we want instantly not scrolling, and scrolling and then scrolling, and again... I know we can do presets but to do it we must suffer

3/ bypass IRs is the last entry on that mentioned long list - really PA?? anybody tested GUI  seriously? All competitors just would put button close to control with IRs just to turn off and turn on using internal cabinets/mics chain emulation.

BTW I reported to them long time ago problem with presets displaying in VST3, they suggested me using VST2, well, Anyway I checked many months when buying next PA thing and still not fixed and finally I stopped even to try install VST3, using VST2, Anybody tried lately VST3 and checked if fixed or they just ignored thing. It is not impossible to fix it as some manufacturers are providing VST3 with flawlessly working presets,

UPDATE:

ok, I was too lazy, sorry for that. just installed VST3 and checked by myself. Issue still not fixed... After two year after reported? Really lame.

On pictures included you can see what I mean. No presets in VST3 preset drop-down list container.

What do you mean, they all have an input gain control and you can bypass the preamp altogether. These plugins are very sensitive to appropriate gain staging unfortunately. Also, I do have presets in my DAW’s preset manager. There is an issue where they sometimes don’t install, but it usually works after a re-install (VST3). Support have a file with all presets for manual installation  in case the re-install doesn’t work. Agreed on the workflow issues, at the very minimum they could have implemented a sorted sub list based on cabs or mics. A graphical representation would have been nice too.

[Piotr]

2 minutes ago, Joakim said:

What do you mean, they all have an input gain control and you can bypass the preamp altogether. These plugins are very sensitive to appropriate gain staging unfortunately. Also, I do have presets in my DAW’s preset manager. There is an issue where they sometimes don’t install, but it usually works after a re-install (VST3). Support have a file with all presets for manual installation  in case the re-install doesn’t work. Agreed on the workflow issues, at the very minimum they could have implemented a sorted sub list based on cabs or mics. A graphical representation would have been nice too.

I mean input meter scaled to show how far current input is from plugin has been designed as in Amplitube, THU, and many many others...

About presets for VST3 container in PA I installed/reinstalled lots of them and never got working presets menu. It works only in VST2.

Did you ever got VST3 version for PA plugin with working presets menu in VST3 container?

As mentioned created even ticket for support, they advised me to use VST2 version.  Well, it is not the end of the world of course use VST2 instead of VST3 as far as not difference in use. However little disappointing.  It cannot be very hard to fix as some of manufacturers are able to do it from the beginning.

[Grem]

13 hours ago, Piotr said:

Well, I believe beta testers checked all possible options  so maybe they were provided only with few IR while testing So they had no reason to complain. ?

 Never thought of this!! You are probably correct too!!  ?

Poor guys!! Here they are working hard to give us a good product, and I'm out here throwing them under the bus!! ?

[Piotr]

15 minutes ago, Grem said:

 Never thought of this!! You are probably correct too!!  ?

Poor guys!! Here they are working hard to give us a good product, and I'm out here throwing them under the bus!! ?

In the contrary, paradoxically  

I believe we all appreciate their great work and we are thankful for that. But does it mean we shouldn't complain when they have screwed something up? 

We are the same part of the whole. They produce and sell, we are buying and using. They need our feedback to improve their work. And the better it is they will grab even more customers.