Roland Fantom XR and Cakewalk

[Louis]

Hello all
I cant change the patches on my XR via Cakewalk.  I can change the bank which changes the default patch for that bank. I can change the patch using the Librarian, so I think my hardware setup is correct.  But I'm not sure of the software setup.

Equipment
Korg X-50 (in, out)
Roland Fantom XR (in, out, bypass)
Roland GI-20 (in, out)
Miditech MIDIface 8x8 MIDI Interface (8 in, 8 out)

MIDI -ox
6 channel mixer board (Usb only)
Windows PC 10

Appreciate any help you can through my way.  I have been studying this sound engineering for a couple of months.  Steep learning curve and lots of information.

[Promidi]

Does the Roland Fantom XR transmit Patch changes via MIDI when you change a patch.

Maybe you can use Cakewalk to record what the Roland Fantom XR transmits so you can get an idea of what the XR expects.

In  Preferences - MIDI - Playback and Recording, make sure Patch Changes is selected under “Record"

You could also use an instrument definition file for the Roland Fantom XR.

https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/fantom-xr/updates_drivers/caae31ad-be3a-4735-a7a7-a28370c24e97/

[Louis]

On 10/27/2022 at 9:13 PM, Promidi said:

Does the Roland Fantom XR transmit Patch changes via MIDI when you change a patch.

Maybe you can use Cakewalk to record what the Roland Fantom XR transmits so you can get an idea of what the XR expects.

In  Preferences - MIDI - Playback and Recording, make sure Patch Changes is selected under “Record"

You could also use an instrument definition file for the Roland Fantom XR.

https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/fantom-xr/updates_drivers/caae31ad-be3a-4735-a7a7-a28370c24e97/

I do have an ins file, and  I can see and change what bank and patch to use.  It selects the correct bank but only will play the first bank, even though it says another patch selected?  Thanks for the reply.

Is there a way to see what midi messages are being sent and received in cakewalk?

[Peter C]

Try using this ins file to show all the XR presets. You can then select them in the CbB inspector. As I recall from the days of my Fantom-X it's one-way midi traffic, i.e. you can change the bank and patch in Cakewalk and that gets you the patch you want. But when I used to select as patch on the Fantom it did not transmit that to Cakewalk. 

roland_fantomXR382.zip

[Louis]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:27 AM, Peter C said:

Try using this ins file to show all the XR presets. You can then select them in the CbB inspector. As I recall from the days of my Fantom-X it's one-way midi traffic, i.e. you can change the bank and patch in Cakewalk and that gets you the patch you want. But when I used to select as patch on the Fantom it did not transmit that to Cakewalk. 

roland_fantomXR382.zip 66.13 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks for the response, sorry it took so long.  This is a XML file.  How do I get it into cakewalk.  Its looking for an ins file.

[Peter C]

Oh sugar I sent you a Cubase definition file. Here is the correct one I hope.  I presume you get the drop down menu in the Inspector which should show all the patches in a bank from which you select your choice of patch?

Roland Fantom XR Drum Kits incl SRX-06.ins Roland Fantom XR incl SRX-06.ins

Edited November 3, 2022 by Peter C
Extra info

[Louis]

Thanks so much for the files. I was able to install all of them without any problem.  Now to ask another dumb question, I guess you have to have the SRX boards to be able to use the SRX definitions?

[Peter C]

Sorry I should have made that clear. Yes, if you don't want the srx banks you can delete them in a text editor or within the instrument definition within cbb. Or just ignore them. 

[Louis]

Gotcha

Trying to fix why all the channel banks change when ever I change any of the other ones.

 

[Peter C]

I no longer have the Fantom so can't try to replicate this. I presume you change the preset within the Inspector drop-down menu. 

[User 905133]

Oh.  You posted the same problem in  two different threads!  ? 

[Louis]

26 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I no longer have the Fantom so can't try to replicate this. I presume you change the preset within the Inspector drop-down menu. 

Yes

 

[Louis]

2 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Oh.  You posted the same problem in  two different threads!  ? 

Sorry

 

[Peter C]

So when you select say JD-800 Piano you can't get it to sound and it just plays the sound of the first patch in that bank? If that's the case have you checked the Fantom menu (I had the Fantom X keyboard but I presume there's a way into the XR's settings via its front panel) to make sure it's set to receive midi messages?  And it's just worth double checking that Cakewalk is sending midi messages out - it should be as that's its default  I think.

[Louis]

If I select an insturment lets say for track 1 it will play the correct patch, but all the other tracks play  the same patch.

Example:  Piano on track 1 , Bass on track 2.  If I change track 2 "roomy bass", Track 2 plays "roomy bass", but so does track 1.  If I change track 1 to "so true" track 1 plays "so true", but now track 2 went from "roomy bass" to "So true".  Doesn't change the parameters you see, but the fantom has changed.  I used a MIDI sniffer and I can see a change patch event on any track will cause a change patch event for every track.

[Peter C]

11 minutes ago, Louis said:

If I select an insturment lets say for track 1 it will play the correct patch, but all the other tracks play  the same patch.

Example:  Piano on track 1 , Bass on track 2.  If I change track 2 "roomy bass", Track 2 plays "roomy bass", but so does track 1.  If I change track 1 to "so true" track 1 plays "so true", but now track 2 went from "roomy bass" to "So true".  Doesn't change the parameters you see, but the fantom has changed.  I used a MIDI sniffer and I can see a change patch event on any track will cause a change patch event for every track.

Right. Understood. I remember I had a similar problem. It was caused by midi tracks being assigned to the same outputs. Check in the Inspector where your midi tracks are sending data. I had to be really careful to make sure I had each track set to its individual output, track 1 midi out 1, track 2 midi out 2 and so on. I found that somehow Cakewalk can make it easy to send midi to multiple outs. 

[User 905133]

4 hours ago, Peter C said:

It was caused by midi tracks being assigned to the same outputs.

(1) The MidiView screen shot shows that not all the midi channels are being sent the same patch data.  Some are, but some channels are being sent different patch commands.

(2) If all the tracks were routed to the same midi channel, the note data would most likely be the same.  Is that what's happening? I was under the impression that the note data was different, but the patches weren't.  I think it was in the other thread that Louis said he already checked to make sure the Fantom wasn't in Omni mode.  Maybe I misread that?

Edited November 4, 2022 by User 905133
fixed typo

[Peter C]

18 hours ago, User 905133 said:

(1) The MidiView screen shot shows that not all the midi channels are being sent the same patch data.  Some are, but some channels are being sent different patch commands.

(2) If all the tracks were routed to the same midi channel, the note data would most likely be the same.  Is that what's happening? I was under the impression that the note data was different, but the patches weren't.  I think it was in the other thread that Louis said he already checked to make sure the Fantom wasn't in Omni mode.  Maybe I misread that?

Mmmmm. .....now struggling with this. However it does seem to be caused by all channels being routed to the Fantom. In the Inspector, right-hand column under the mix rotary control just check that all channels is not selected. It used to baffle me when I could see multiple channels in the Fantom's performance mode change and that was the problem. I'm not familiar with the XR but I presume Louis has got that in performance mode?????? (just a thought)

[Louis]

21 hours ago, User 905133 said:

(1) The MidiView screen shot shows that not all the midi channels are being sent the same patch data.  Some are, but some channels are being sent different patch commands.

(2) If all the tracks were routed to the same midi channel, the note data would most likely be the same.  Is that what's happening? I was under the impression that the note data was different, but the patches weren't.  I think it was in the other thread that Louis said he already checked to make sure the Fantom wasn't in Omni mode.  Maybe I misread that?

Yes I've checked its not in omni mode.  All the tracks are being sent the same patch now.  I've started with a MIDI song I just downloaded and its doing the same thing.  For some reason when I set everything to its own channel I only hear out of channel 1.

[User 905133]

48 minutes ago, Louis said:

Yes I've checked its not in omni mode.  All the tracks are being sent the same patch now.  I've started with a MIDI song I just downloaded and its doing the same thing.  For some reason when I set everything to its own channel I only hear out of channel 1.

I just looked at what I think is the manual for your synth. If its the right one, it sounds something is going on with it.

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/FANTOM-XR_OM.pdf , page 179:

Quote

Q:  Can’t receive MIDI messages correctly

A: Check the following points. Is the Fantom-XR set to receive MIDI messages?

• In Patch Mode Patch Mode Rx Channel parameter (p. 156)

• In Performance Mode Performance Part Receive Channel parameter (p. 91) Performance Part Receive Switch parameter (p. 92) 

Those pages seem to say you can set up the Fantom to ignore certain data if I am reading the manual correctly. For example:

Quote

Rx Program Change (Receive Program Change Switch) OFF, ON Specifies whether Program Change messages will be received (ON) or not

Quote

Rx Bank Select (Receive Bank Select Switch) OFF, ON Specifies whether Bank Select messages will be received (ON) or not (OFF).

If you downloaded a freely available MIDI file done by someone else and as a result you are either (a) hearing only track 1 coming from CbB or (b) hearing all CbB tracks being played on the Fantom's Channel, perhaps there is a command there that is resetting the Fantom to cause it cause either (a) or (b).

Quote

Executing a Factory Reset sets the Fantom-XR’s reception channel in Patch mode to “1.”

This tells me that the Fantom has some sort of default so that the "reception channel" in "Patch mode" is set to 1.  If its a multi-timbral synth in multi-timbral mode that's being sent midi data on multiple channels from CbB and all you are getting is midi notes being played on channel 1, to that suggests maybe some sort or reset was done.

Sorry; I have never even see one of these synths.  All I can do is ready the manual and try to guess what might be happening.

Maybe there's another user that has more experience with this gear.   

Have you tried either Roland support or a Roland Forum?  Any multi-channel MIDI files I ever downloaded, played my multi-timbral synths with different sounds on different channels.  

Maybe someone knows if there's something in CbB that might cause the results you are getting?