Cakewalk erroneously modifying/adding instruments to MIDI file

[quattj]

I am working on a project where I need to load a bunch of MIDI files in to Cakewalk one at a time to trim and fade out the ends.

I have another piece of software that allows me to see all instruments that are in use in a particular file.

Unfortunately, at the "completion" of my project, while making screenshots of the instrument lists, I have discovered that there are instruments present that were not there before Cakewalk had a go at the files, and thus all my finish work has been done on "corrupted" versions of my files.

See the following examples.  The first screenshot is the "before Cakewalk", while the second is "after Cakewalk".  All I did in this case was load the original, then save a copy to grab screenshots.

In file 21:

7 extra instruments have been added to channel 1.

In file 22:

Melodic Tom 2 and Taiko should not exist on Channel 1.

Melodic Tom 2 should not exist on Channel 2.

Out of 35 total MIDI files, quite a few have been affected this way, though I have yet to go through them all to discover all of the pain.

 

In the final screenshot, you can see extra program changes immediately followed by program changes and a Note On only after the second program change.

 

 

[quattj]

I finished a previous project of 15 MIDI files in mid-August, and going back and checking those now I don't see anything out of the ordinary, so it may be related to one of the most recent updates?

 

EDIT: I reverted to v2002.06, and it did not resolve the issue.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by quattj

[JoseC]

Make sure that no patch or bank is selected in the CbB tracks before saving.

[quattj]

I'm not sure which portion you are referencing, as I haven't used Cakewalk for anything other than adding fades and extending or cropping existing MIDI files.  There are defaults in the inspector panel that are there when I load the files up.  They are identical between the original file and the opened/saved/closed file.

I literally open a file, save it, and close it and it gets messed up.  Also, I'm not really sure how Cakewalk is describing the events.  Here are screenshots of the event view from a messed up track in Cakewalk vs Sekaiju (a "clean" file, opened, saved, closed, and then opened in both editors' event views).  The erroneous instruments do not appear to even show in Cakewalk.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by quattj

[user 905133]

[withdrawn for now, pending some more exploration]

Edited October 18, 2022 by User 905133
edited

[quattj]

I thought I attached some sample files.  Here is a before and after of the two versions of the first file from the original post, plus the two versions from the reply.

 

 

scv4-21 new repair 2-01.mid scv4-21 new repair 2-01 cake.mid scv4-21 new repair 2-01 repair.mid scv4-21 new repair 2-01 repair cake.mid

[quattj]

Hmm, it looks like any time Cakewalk lists "Patch 100..." in the Patch data field instead of Controller 0, I am getting the issue with instruments.

Note that the 3 "Patch 100..." in the Cakewalk screenshot correspond to the 3 erroneous doubled-program changes in the Sekaiju screeshot.

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by quattj

[quattj]

It appears that what is happening is:

There is a bank select, followed by a program change in the original file.  Cakewalk is holding on to this program change number.

There is new bank select followed by a new program change, at which point Cakewalk applies the previous program change number to the new bank select (which it should not), and immediately follows it by the same new bank select but with the new program change number (which it should).

You can see in the Sekaiju screenshot that PC 116 is then followed by a wrong PC 116, PC 118 is followed by a wrong PC 118, and the next PC 116 is followed by a wrong PC 116.  It does not happen all the time, which is strange.  It seems only certain bank selects are having this problem.  Thus far, I see it happening with specific melodic perscussions (though I have not analyzed my other files yet).

I manually deleted all of the bad PCs in the final version of this same file (which I have already faded, tagged, and renamed before finding out there was a problem) using Sekaiju.

The instrument list is now correct in this file.  See screenshots of the final file before manually deleting the PCs, and after.  The after screenshot matches instruments of the original file before editing with Cakewalk.

Edited October 18, 2022 by quattj

[user 905133]

I was curious about Sekaiju when I saw it and tried a few things yesterday to get Cakewalk to insert random patch changes that showed up in Sekaiju like you had.  I couldn't.  I did notice the bank switching in the event listings you posted.  Today I also see there are "Normal" patch changes as well as "Patch 100.." patch changes.

Given the different ranges of the bank values for the two (Normal v. Patch 100..), I am wondering if different bank switching methods were used.**  I only used bank switching for my specific gear and I haven't looked into bank switching on soft synths.  With my limited understanding, it sounds like you have done an excellent job trying to pin down what's going on that results in the random program changes.

Maybe someone who knows what is going on under the hood of Cakewalk has some insights into why its happening.  

BTW: Sounds like video game music!!!  

**https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Instrument_Defs.07.html

Quote

Patch 100...127:    Instruments that let you change banks by sending patch changes between 100 and 127

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by User 905133
added link to documentation re: Bank Select options; fixed typos

[quattj]

2 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Maybe someone who knows what is going on under the hood of Cakewalk has some insights into why its happening. 

...

BTW: Sounds like video game music!!! 

I emailed support about the issue.  They are looking in to it.

...

100% video game music!

I am working on a project converting SNES (Super Nintendo) soundtracks in to high quality MIDI files.  This soundtrack (Super Castlevania IV) is nearly complete.  This issue with Cakewalk delayed it ?

I just went through all of the files one by one, and only 4 of the 35 were affected.  Took about an hour to delete all the extra program changes.  Once I test them out, I think it will all be good.

If you're curious to hear the final soundtrack when it is complete (as well as the previous soundtrack I have finished, Super R-Type), check out the project playlist on YouTube.  It has full soundtrack video(s), as well as links in the video descriptions to my Google drive folder, which contains instructions on the process I am using to create the files, as well as downloadable mp3 and MIDI versions of the soundtracks.  New soundtracks will be added as I complete them.  Hopefully with all the issues ironed out for the next one

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzNFPVjo8upworyQq0DXDTiCZzPP29Frw

[quattj]

I read the bank select documentation.  Curious why it would change the default "Normal", which is what my files *should* use, in to using "Patch".  And why it only happened with a small amount of them.  They all go through essentially the same creation process, and are all edited with the same various softwares before being brought in to Cakewalk.

All of the offending items were Program Change 117, 118, or 119, though not in all files, and not all instances of each. (116, 117, 118 depending on the editor in question)

Edited October 19, 2022 by quattj

[quattj]

Siiiiigh.  I had to re-edit all of the final finished files with Cakewalk to insert a measure at the beginning of 34 of the songs (it auto-added the setup measure only to a single song), and it re-added all of the incorrect instruments that I had already manually removed. ?

[quattj]

In the latest version 2022.11, this issue is still present.  I have replied to the support email with a follow-up.  See the mess in my NEW project!  It appears any Bank Select for [*edit] an instrument number 100 or over [*/edit] causes a problem.

Edited December 20, 2022 by quattj
corrected cause of issue

[quattj]

As a workaround, I am now:

- using my instrument switcher to temporarily change any instrument with a number >= 100 to an instrument number <= 99 (in most cases, 2x Page Up gets me -20 instrument number, which puts it in the "acceptable range",

- making the required edits with Cakewalk,

- resetting the changed instrument numbers back to their originals using my instrument switcher.

Pain and suffering reduced by 92%.  Cakewalk no longer corrupts the instrument selections, and I no longer have to spend a bunch of time manually deleting incorrect bank selects.