New and need some help

[CJ8073]

Hello, I am new to Cakewalk and I need some help with the concept of grouping clips.  I have been  using cakewalk to record my volunteer audiobook chapters (I don't like audacity - I know, everyone says to use that one) and I really have been enjoying my experience with it so far.  I love the interface and have learned so much since beginning using it.  My problem is, I noticed that while recording, I whistle my "s".  I have tried using a couple de-essers and I don't have the money to invest in an expensive pay version(s), so I have found the best way for me to deal with my annoying "s" is to isolate them, group them, move them to another track and then use send to a compressor and minimize them.  I have successfully done this for one chapter.  When I grouped my "s" sounds they formed a group labeled 01 and they all successfully grouped.  When I selected one, they all got selected, which I liked because I could work with them as a whole.  However, this takes forever to click every "s" sound in one fell swoop.  So, I am trying to group as I go, so-to-speak.  I figure if I record, edit and check in one session then that will cut down my edit time later.  To deal with my "s" sounds, in the same session after I check my work to make sure all mistakes are taken care and my reading is good, I would like to isolate those "s" using the split feature to split before the "s" sound and after the "s" sound for each sound and then group those together for that day.  When I come back the next day and get to isolated my new "s" sounds, I want to be able to add those to the previous day.  Now, I tried this, but somewhere I screwed up and wound with with copies of "s" sounds on top of their same "s" sounds and when I create a group it makes like a label like 40.  How did I wind up with 40 groups?  I am so confused.  How do I change it to say 02 for a label, if I want it to?  And how do I successfully add each day's "s" without creating copies or new group labels?  Every time I add the next day's, the group name changes.  I'm sorry if this is confusing, but I'm so confused and I have tried researching what I'm doing wrong, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.  All of my other Cakewalk complications I have managed to figure out just by painstakingly researching for myself.  But, this, I am totally confused.  Did I accidentally create craptons of groups when I was initially splitting my "s"?  I have a lot of "s", I would imagine it would be way more than 40 if that were the case.  Also, is there a place I can see all of the groups created so I can see what's going on?  Lastly, I tried removing all my clips from the group and start over grouping just a couple together, but again my group label starts at like, 42 or another higher number... argh.  Anway, thanks, ahead for any help.  I really appreciate it. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by CJ8073

[Will.]

44 minutes ago, CJ8073 said:

Hello, I am new to Cakewalk and I need some help with the concept of grouping clips.  I have been  using cakewalk to record my volunteer audiobook chapters (I don't like audacity - I know, everyone says to use that one) and I really have been enjoying my experience with it so far.  I love the interface and have learned so much since beginning using it.  My problem is, I noticed that while recording, I whistle my "s".  I have tried using a couple de-essers and I don't have the money to invest in an expensive pay version(s), so I have found the best way for me to deal with my annoying "s" is to isolate them, group them, move them to another track and then use send to a compressor and minimize them.  I have successfully done this for one chapter.  When I grouped my "s" sounds they formed a group labeled 01 and they all successfully grouped.  When I selected one, they all got selected, which I liked because I could work with them as a whole.  However, this takes forever to click every "s" sound in one fell swoop.  So, I am trying to group as I go, so-to-speak.  I figure if I record, edit and check in one session then that will cut down my edit time later.  To deal with my "s" sounds, in the same session after I check my work to make sure all mistakes are taken care and my reading is good, I would like to isolate those "s" using the split feature to split before the "s" sound and after the "s" sound for each sound and then group those together for that day.  When I come back the next day and get to isolated my new "s" sounds, I want to be able to add those to the previous day.  Now, I tried this, but somewhere I screwed up and wound with with copies of "s" sounds on top of their same "s" sounds and when I create a group it makes like a label like 40.  How did I wind up with 40 groups?  I am so confused.  How do I change it to say 02 for a label, if I want it to?  And how do I successfully add each day's "s" without creating copies or new group labels?  Every time I add the next day's, the group name changes.  I'm sorry if this is confusing, but I'm so confused and I have tried researching what I'm doing wrong, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.  All of my other Cakewalk complications I have managed to figure out just by painstakingly researching for myself.  But, this, I am totally confused.  Did I accidentally create craptons of groups when I was initially splitting my "s"?  I have a lot of "s", I would imagine it would be way more than 40 if that were the case.  Also, is there a place I can see all of the groups created so I can see what's going on?  Lastly, I tried removing all my clips from the group and start over grouping just a couple together, but again my group label starts at like, 42 or another higher number... argh.  Anway, thanks, ahead for any help.  I really appreciate it. 

What you are looking is called a "De-esser" plugin. It tames the harshness of these plosive sounds - all eight of them in the english language. 

The best free De-esser in my opinion is from Analog Obsession - called: Analog Obsession Loades.

DOWNLOAD LINK: They also have a ton of free plugins to choose from. 

https://www.patreon.com/analogobsession

My second option for beat free pluvin bundles that includes a De-esser, is the melda fx bundles. 

https://www.meldaproduction.com/effects/free

"DE-ESSERS" makes life so easier. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Will.

[CJ8073]

Thank you. I'll will check out your suggestions; however, if I decide to continue with my isolating, grouping method, I'm curious if anyone would be able to help me with the grouping issue I am facing.  Thanks!

[AndyB01]

Apologies if I've misunderstood the question but this might help.

If by 'clips' you mean tracks, the simplest way to 'group' these is to use a bus. Your tracks will - by default - all route on output to a master bus. Find this setting and create a new stereo bus and give this a name - create as many buses as you need and select the output bus for each track.

This way you can add effects on the bus to affect all tracks on the bus, rather than each single track. You can also colour the bus and it will colour all the tracks the same to help you navigate lots of tracks more easily.

If this is what you meant, I strongly recommend you look at Mike Enjo's videos on YouTube (his channel goes under the name of Creative Sauce). Especially look for the ones on using buses and sends - he explains it far better than I can.

Andy

P.s. Welcome to Bandlab and the forum - a little hint when posting - a few paragraphs go a long way to helping us digest longer posts.

 

[Byron Dickens]

Paragraphs are your friends.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

[David Baay]

Per the documentation, creating a new group that includes existing and added clips is the expected behavior. You aren't actually creating multiple goups, just incrementing the group number every time you add to it.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.34.html

To add clips to an existing selection group

1. Click on any clip in the existing group.

     All clips in the group are selected.

2. Hold down the CTRL key and click the clips that you want to add to the group.

3. Right-click any selected clip and choose Create selection group from selected clips from the pop-up menu.

     All selected clips are placed in a new selection group.

Note: A clip may only belong to one selection group at a time. If any of the selected clips already belong to another clip group, they will be removed from the other group and placed in the new group.

P.S. If i were you, I'd definitely be looking for a free or low-cost De-esser!

Edited September 28, 2022 by David Baay

[CJ8073]

4 hours ago, AndyB01 said:

Apologies if I've misunderstood the question but this might help.

If by 'clips' you mean tracks, the simplest way to 'group' these is to use a bus. Your tracks will - by default - all route on output to a master bus. Find this setting and create a new stereo bus and give this a name - create as many buses as you need and select the output bus for each track.

This way you can add effects on the bus to affect all tracks on the bus, rather than each single track. You can also colour the bus and it will colour all the tracks the same to help you navigate lots of tracks more easily.

If this is what you meant, I strongly recommend you look at Mike Enjo's videos on YouTube (his channel goes under the name of Creative Sauce). Especially look for the ones on using buses and sends - he explains it far better than I can.

Andy

P.s. Welcome to Bandlab and the forum - a little hint when posting - a few paragraphs go a long way to helping us digest longer posts.

 

Oh!  I really love Creative Sauce's (Mike Enjo's) Youtube channel, it's where I have learned so much!  Really, really great information.  It's how I learned how to send my "s" track to the compressor on my main audio track to subdue those "sss".  Thank you for your help.  What I am meaning is not grouping multiple tracks, I meant clips within one track that I have split.  So, like, I have one track and I've split all the "s" sounds so that each "s" sound is its own clip.  Then I was trying to group those clips together so that I could move them from the main audio track to a separate audio track to deal with harshness of them by using some EQ.  I did this successfully the first time, but it took a very long time to do in one fell swoop at then end of my recording.  So, I was trying to do it a section at time as I finished a day's worth of work, so I didn't have to do it all at once at the end.  The problem came when I noticed that the group label was "40".  I thought I had inadvertantly made 40 groups and wondered how that had happened.  I also noticed that I had somehow created copies of "s" clips on top of themselves... lol.  Still don't know how that happened.  So, I was trying to see where all these "groups" were and was trying to figure out how I had made so many duplicates so that I could avoid that.  I was also trying to see if I could rename the label back to 02 or something, so it wasn't 40.  Thank you, again, for your help, I do appreciate it.  I'm sorry if I've been confusing.

[CJ8073]

5 hours ago, David Baay said:

Per the documentation, creating a new group that includes existing and added clips is the expected behavior. You aren't actually creating multiple goups, just incrementing the group number every time you add to it.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Arranging.34.html

To add clips to an existing selection group

1. Click on any clip in the existing group.

     All clips in the group are selected.

2. Hold down the CTRL key and click the clips that you want to add to the group.

3. Right-click any selected clip and choose Create selection group from selected clips from the pop-up menu.

     All selected clips are placed in a new selection group.

Note: A clip may only belong to one selection group at a time. If any of the selected clips already belong to another clip group, they will be removed from the other group and placed in the new group.

P.S. If i were you, I'd definitely be looking for a free or low-cost De-esser!

Thank you for your help.  I was following those instructions.  After reading your post I think I was simply mistaking what the label number meant.  I wish I could change the label, but I guess can't.  I guess it wouldn't really matter, since it's just a count.  Didn't think I grouped and regrouped 40 times, though .... lol.  Still not sure how I made copies of the clips, though.  Anyway, again, thank you for your help.  I appreciated it.

[tecknot]

11 hours ago, CJ8073 said:

...  Still not sure how I made copies of the clips, though...

Most likely a misfired key stroke.  You can easily duplicate clips by highlighting them and pressing D.  Just a guess.

Kind regards,

tecknot

[CJ8073]

1 hour ago, tecknot said:

Most likely a misfired key stroke.  You can easily duplicate clips by highlighting them and pressing D.  Just a guess.

Kind regards,

tecknot

Yes, that's probably what happened.  My keyboard is sometimes on my lap when I am using shortcuts.  If I am splitting a track into smaller pieces, and if I accidentally hit the ctrl key while selecting to split, will that produce copies of clips?  lol, I think I am going to experiment and see what happens.  Thanks

[Max Arwood]

I went to NAMN one year and went to a session by a famous mixer guy. He did the same thing you are doing, but he edited the volume of every single “s” .  I would use the sissor tool, cut each side of the S’s. Do about 5 -10 at a time. Click on them from left one 1st end on the 1st one. This will put your cursor in the right position. CTRL-click them till you are at the 1st s. Then Ctrl-x. That cuts them from the track. Click the number label on the track where you want to move them. Ctrl-v. They are moved. No reason to group them. Place markers on chapters or save as ch1.cwp, ch2 .cwp etc and splice the chapters together when you are finished. Compression and Eq will work fine. If you decide to look into a deEsser you will probably still have some that need a little more editing. Clip gain is great for that.  Both tracks should be outputted to a bus as someone mentioned before. 
 

google free deEsser

SpitFish and Lisp are both good. You should also get the free Melda bundle if you don’t already have it  

My favorite lower priced one is waves renaissance deEsser. Don’t pay more than $29 for it.  Plugin Alliance also has one called SPL deEsser if you don’t like waves. 

[CJ8073]

On 9/30/2022 at 3:22 AM, Max Arwood said:

I went to NAMN one year and went to a session by a famous mixer guy. He did the same thing you are doing, but he edited the volume of every single “s” .  I would use the sissor tool, cut each side of the S’s. Do about 5 -10 at a time. Click on them from left one 1st end on the 1st one. This will put your cursor in the right position. CTRL-click them till you are at the 1st s. Then Ctrl-x. That cuts them from the track. Click the number label on the track where you want to move them. Ctrl-v. They are moved. No reason to group them. Place markers on chapters or save as ch1.cwp, ch2 .cwp etc and splice the chapters together when you are finished. Compression and Eq will work fine. If you decide to look into a deEsser you will probably still have some that need a little more editing. Clip gain is great for that.  Both tracks should be outputted to a bus as someone mentioned before. 
 

google free deEsser

SpitFish and Lisp are both good. You should also get the free Melda bundle if you don’t already have it  

My favorite lower priced one is waves renaissance deEsser. Don’t pay more than $29 for it.  Plugin Alliance also has one called SPL deEsser if you don’t like waves. 

Thank you, for this reply!  I really appreciate knowing that I am practicing something a professional would do to tame my "s".  They are annoying for me to listen to when I check my recording for errors, I'd really hate for others to be annoyed by it.. lol.  I've spent a long time trying to figure out how to fix them.  I tried using the VX-64 Vocal Strip for De-essing, but I wasn't happy with the result, and felt like too many whistles still got through.  Then I came across some reddit post that mentioned sidechaining and using a compressor, so that's how I got the idea for it.  I started watching a ton of videos and reading lots of articles to figure out how to do it, properly.  One thing I like about it, is that I feel like I can better fine tune it and have more control because I can get just the sounds I'm trying to tame and not others.  It seems more precise.  It's just time consuming, so doing a little at a time at the end of each day seemed more reasonable and more efficient.  I can see most of my "s" visually, so I just put on some music or tv and zone out while isolating them all.  Thank you for your suggestion about how to better split them without having to group.  I'll try that!  I'll also check out all of the de-essers everyone has suggested.  I am really trying to make my audio sound professional, because eventually I'd like to narrate as a career and truthfully, I love the audio engineering and editing side to the whole process.  Over the last six months or so I've learned so much.    I wish I were more musically knowledgeable, because audio engineering music is fascinating to me.  Thank you, again, for your reply to my post regarding grouping and the process I'm using to tame those pesky "s", it's very much appreciated.