Waves Audio WLM Meter / Plus plug-ins cause Cakewalk to go CRAZY!

[GTsongwriter]

Hi,

I am using Windows Version 10.0.19044 Build 19044 / Cakewalk by Bandlabs 2022.06 (Build 034, 64 bit).

WHAT DOES IT DO?  When you load it into a large project, and it is in foreground (in focus), it causes Cakewalk to think it needs to save the project every other second.  When you load it into a very small project (1 audio track), it will just constantly flicker every other second.  You basically can hardly do anything other than try to hide the plug-in to regain control of Cakewalk.

WHAT DID I DO TO TRY TO FIX THIS?  I tried to use Waves Audio Studio Rack plugin to host it, but that does not solve the issue.  I tried googling a issue.  I couldn't find any information on this issue.

WHAT DO I KNOW?  I have a 18 fully licensed Waves Audio plug-ins with no issues.  It's odd that this one plugin would cause Cakewalk by Bandlabs such a major issue to cause Cakewalk unusable!

Does anyone know of any work around?  I have emailed Waves Audio tech support, but I'm not sure how long it will take them to get back with me.

[abacab]

It is my opinion in general that plug-in makers need to test their plug-ins in all DAWs. Cakewalk is sometimes overlooked... ?

So it follows that logic that it's not the responsibility of the DAW maker to adjust to the shortcomings of a plug-in maker. Let Waves hear about it!

[GTsongwriter]

15 hours ago, abacab said:

I

15 hours ago, abacab said:

It is my opinion in general that plug-in makers need to test their plug-ins in all DAWs. Cakewalk is sometimes overlooked... ?

So it follows that logic that it's not the responsibility of the DAW maker to adjust to the shortcomings of a plug-in maker. Let Waves hear about it!

I must have gotten a Generic Reply from Waves Audio.... They didn't even bother telling me if they tested it on their side or not.  They just choose to believe the plugin works and it's my fault for the plugin not working.

 

Here's what they wrote back:

 

Thank you for contacting Waves Tech Support.
 

Make sure to load WLM (and any other Waves plugin) as VST3, which is the only format tested and qualified with our plugins in Cakewalk.

Make sure that Windows is fully updated, and if any updates are available in Windows' Check for Updates program - install them and reboot the computer.

Once Windows is fully updated, follow these steps to repair Windows' Redistributables -

 Quit all applications.

 Make sure all the latest windows updates are installed.

 Go to C:\Program Files\Waves Central\resources\res\external\Redistributables.

 Now, go through each folder and run all the Application files, one by one ( Let me know if you're getting any errors). Select the 'Repair' option to repair all of them.

If prompted to restart, you can skip that until you finish all the files.

If the issue still persists, follow these steps for a complete removal of all Waves files, followed by a clean installation - 

Uninstall:

Launch Waves Central.

Go to the Settings page in the bottom left corner.

Under Maintenance, look for Uninstall and click the drop-down menu.

Checkmark all the available version entries and click Uninstall.

Quit Waves Central.

Go to C:\Program Files (x86) and delete the Waves folder.

Press [Win key]+R, type %AppData% and hit Enter.

In the Roaming folder that shows, drag the Waves Audio folder to your desktop.

Press [Win key]+R, type %LocalAppData% and hit Enter. In the window that shows, delete the Waves Audio folder.

Press [Win key]+R, type %ProgramData% and hit Enter. In the window that shows, delete the Waves Audio folder.

Go to C:\Program Files\Waves Central - run the Uninstall Waves Central.exe file.

Delete the Waves Central folder in C:\Program Files

Delete any WaveShell files you find in the following locations (if exist):

C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins

C:\Program Files\Common Files\Avid\Audio\Plug-ins

C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3

C:\Program Files (x86)\VSTPlugins

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\ DigiDesign\DAE\Plug-Ins

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\WPAPI

Now to re-install:

Download and install Central.

Run Central and log in.

Go to the Install Products page in the top left corner.

Under My Products, check mark the products you wish to install.

Click Install on the bottom right.

Rescan in Cakewalk as per this article.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[Byron Dickens]

So have you tried their suggestions yet?

[abacab]

This suggestion from Waves support makes sense! Verify that Windows has everything up to date, and then clean re-install your Waves environment.

See how that goes...

[GTsongwriter]

I hope they don't expect me to "Always" be up to date with Microsoft Windows updates.... cause the latest updates have caused massive problems with other computers.  Currently the latest update does this "Windows 10 KB5017308 causing issues with Group Policy settings".  Why would I want to install bugs?

EDIT: I'll be up to date, only after the Windows update doesn't have any issues for 90 days.

Edited September 22, 2022 by El Diablo

[abacab]

3 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I hope they don't expect me to "Always" be up to date with Microsoft Windows updates.... cause the latest updates have caused massive problems with other computers.  Currently the latest update does this "Windows 10 KB5017308 causing issues with Group Policy settings".  Why would I want to install bugs?

EDIT: I'll be up to date, only after the Windows update doesn't have any issues for 90 days.

You are probably OK to skip the latest Windows updates, but do be thorough about updating the Windows Redistributables. The redistributables always contains code that Windows applications (and plugins) are dependent on to run correctly. I have heard of other problems being fixed by updating them. That can't hurt in any case.

And a clean refresh of Waves can't hurt either, but may very well help. I have also heard that this fixed other plugin issues with Waves that some have had.

I would focus on those two things, and see how it goes!

[GTsongwriter]

5 minutes ago, abacab said:

You are probably OK to skip the latest Windows updates, but do be thorough about updating the Windows Redistributables. The redistributables always contains code that Windows applications (and plugins) are dependent on to run correctly. I have heard of other problems being fixed by updating them. That can't hurt in any case.

And a clean refresh of Waves can't hurt either, but may very well help. I have also heard that this fixed other plugin issues with Waves that some have had.

I would focus on those two things, and see how it goes!

Here's what happened with the redistribution:

 

vcredist_x86_2005.sp1.MFC.EXE

vcredist_x86_2008_sp1.exe (repair)

vcredist_x64_2012.exe (repair) (restart)

vcredist_x86_2012.exe (repair)

vcredist_x64_2013.exe (repair)

VC_redist.x64.exe (Setup Failed)
[29FC:287C][2022-09-22T13:17:00]e000: Error 0x80070666: Cannot install a product when a newer version is installed.  -- In order to install that version of Microsoft Visual c++ 2015-2019 I would have to uninstall the other version installed.

 

Log file:

 

[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i001: Burn v3.10.4.4718, Windows v10.0 (Build 19044: Service Pack 0), path: C:\Users\ELDIAB~1\AppData\Local\Temp\{36F841ED-E658-4094-BE9A-4E283E48FA4D}\.cr\VC_redist.x64.exe
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i009: Command Line: '"-burn.clean.room=C:\Program Files\Waves Central\resources\res\external\Redistributables\2015andUp\VC_redist.x64.exe" -burn.filehandle.attached=576 -burn.filehandle.self=588'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting string variable 'WixBundleOriginalSource' to value 'C:\Program Files\Waves Central\resources\res\external\Redistributables\2015andUp\VC_redist.x64.exe'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting string variable 'WixBundleOriginalSourceFolder' to value 'C:\Program Files\Waves Central\resources\res\external\Redistributables\2015andUp\'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting string variable 'WixBundleLog' to value 'C:\Users\ELDIAB~1\AppData\Local\Temp\dd_vcredist_amd64_20220922132240.log'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting string variable 'WixBundleName' to value 'Microsoft Visual C++ 2015-2019 Redistributable (x64) - 14.23.27820'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting string variable 'WixBundleManufacturer' to value 'Microsoft Corporation'
[4250:14D4][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting version variable 'WixBundleFileVersion' to value '14.23.27820.0'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i100: Detect begin, 10 packages
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting version variable 'windows_uCRT_DetectKey' to value '10.0.19041.789'
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i000: Setting numeric variable 'windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists' to value 1
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i102: Detected related bundle: {57a73df6-4ba9-4c1d-bbbb-517289ff6c13}, type: Upgrade, scope: PerMachine, version: 14.30.30704.0, operation: Downgrade
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.3 AND NOT VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.3 AND VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.2 AND NOT VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.2 AND VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.1 AND NOT VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.1 AND VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.0 AND NOT VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition '(VersionNT = v6.0 AND VersionNT64) AND (windows_uCRT_DetectKeyExists AND windows_uCRT_DetectKey >= v10.0.10240.0)' evaluates to false.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i103: Detected related package: {662A0088-6FCD-45DD-9EA7-68674058AED5}, scope: PerMachine, version: 14.30.30704.0, language: 0 operation: Downgrade
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i103: Detected related package: {6DB765A8-05AF-49A1-A71D-6F645EE3CE41}, scope: PerMachine, version: 14.30.30704.0, language: 0 operation: Downgrade
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows81_x86, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows81_x64, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows8_x86, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows8_x64, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows7_MSU_x86, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: Windows7_MSU_x64, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: WindowsVista_MSU_x86, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: WindowsVista_MSU_x64, state: Absent, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: vcRuntimeMinimum_x64, state: Obsolete, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i101: Detected package: vcRuntimeAdditional_x64, state: Obsolete, cached: None
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i052: Condition 'VersionNT64 >= v6.0 OR (VersionNT64 = v5.2 AND ServicePackLevel >= 1)' evaluates to true.
[4250:464C][2022-09-22T13:22:40]i199: Detect complete, result: 0x0
[4250:14D4][2022-09-22T13:22:42]i000: Setting numeric variable 'EulaAcceptCheckbox' to value 1
[4250:14D4][2022-09-22T13:22:42]e000: Error 0x80070666: Cannot install a product when a newer version is installed.

 

So, the redistribution is a older file.  That isn't being up to date.

 

[GTsongwriter]

13 minutes ago, abacab said:

You are probably OK to skip the latest Windows updates, but do be thorough about updating the Windows Redistributables. The redistributables always contains code that Windows applications (and plugins) are dependent on to run correctly. I have heard of other problems being fixed by updating them. That can't hurt in any case.

And a clean refresh of Waves can't hurt either, but may very well help. I have also heard that this fixed other plugin issues with Waves that some have had.

I would focus on those two things, and see how it goes!

At this point, I think they should TEST their plugin on Cakewalk 2022.06 ... the latest version, because I'm going thru hoops and I truly think it's the plugin.  I have 18 other Waves Audio plugins in my DAW and they ALL work Fine!

 

[GTsongwriter]

None of the other Waves Audio plugins aren't causing any issues and I will not completely uninstall Waves Central and install it again using up my BANDWIDTH just for one plugin that I can find elsewhere.  I think Waves Audio is about to lose a customer.

 

[abacab]

2 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

I have 18 other Waves Audio plugins in my DAW and they ALL work Fine!

That really doesn't make them all the same. Just one little bit affecting that plugin in your environment could be corrupted, making it YOUR problem only, and if so you are the only person that can fix it.

These suggestions, or hoops as you call them, are the only way to logically rule things out at your end. If you want Waves support (or anyone for that matter) to work with you, you WILL need to do as they ask!

We are just users like you, and have been in your shoes before...

[GTsongwriter]

2 minutes ago, abacab said:

That really doesn't make them all the same. Just one little bit affecting that plugin in your environment could be corrupted, making it YOUR problem only, and if so you are the only person that can fix it.

These suggestions, or hoops as you call them, are the only way to logically rule things out at your end. If you want Waves support (or anyone for that matter) to work with you, you WILL need to do as they ask!

We are just users like you, and have been in your shoes before...

Does this plugin work on your Cakewalk version?

[GTsongwriter]

https://www.waves.com/plugins/wlm-loudness-meter#how-to-set-loudness-levels-for-streaming-wlm

[abacab]

2 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Does this plugin work on your Cakewalk version?

That's the question you should have been asking from the beginning. ?

I don't know, because I don't have that plugin. My 37+ Waves plugins all work fine here in the latest Cakewalk version, but I believe I had to clean install my Waves setup a few years ago when it got glitchy. I don't recall the details, but I am of the opinion that Waves way over complicates things that should be simpler.

If you go back and read what Waves support sent you, they included this statement: "Make sure to load WLM (and any other Waves plugin) as VST3, which is the only format tested and qualified with our plugins in Cakewalk."

[GTsongwriter]

1 minute ago, abacab said:

That's the question you should have been asking from the beginning. ?

I don't know, because I don't have that plugin. My 37+ Waves plugins all work fine here in the latest Cakewalk version, but I believe I had to clean install my Waves setup a few years ago when it got glitchy. I don't recall the details, but I am of the opinion that Waves way over complicates things that should be simpler.

If you go back and read what Waves support sent you, they included this statement: "Make sure to load WLM (and any other Waves plugin) as VST3, which is the only format tested and qualified with our plugins in Cakewalk."

Cakewalk has it in BLUE on the right side of the plugin says VST3 for all of the Waves Audio plugins.

[abacab]

1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

Cakewalk has it in BLUE on the right side of the plugin says VST3 for all of the Waves Audio plugins.

Now all you need to do is find someone that has this particular plugin working in CbB. Then that will be all the proof you need to go back and go over your system with a fine tooth comb!

Good luck!

[GTsongwriter]

4 minutes ago, abacab said:

Now all you need to do is find someone that has this particular plugin working in CbB. Then that will be all the proof you need to go back and go over your system with a fine tooth comb!

Good luck!

Yeah... it's more likely I'm just going to try out another company's plugin even though it doesn't have it's own limiter like "WLM Plus Loudness Meter".  I was really hoping for "WLM Plus Loudness Meter"  to work, but Time is Money and I don't have much of that to waste.

 

I personally think nobody uses that plugin and it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack and I don't think Waves Audio is going to pay to fix that bug just for one customer.

 

Any other company's plugin suggestions for watching LUFs and might have a limiter on it?

 

Thanks for the luck and luck back at you too!

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by El Diablo

[abacab]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

Any other company's plugin suggestions for watching LUFs and might have a limiter on it?

iZotope Insight seems to be a good metering solution. Not cheap though...

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/insight/features.html

 

[abacab]

Another LUFS meter, the IK T-RackS 5Metering.

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/tr5metering/

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by abacab

[Starship Krupa]

This issue is probably caused by having File/Advanced/Auto-save set to save after every X changes.

What happens is that some plug-ins constantly report to Cakewalk that something has changed, even multiple times per second, so if you have Cakewalk set to auto-save after every 5 changes and this plug-in is reporting a change 5X per second, Cakewalk will save every second. I just made those numbers up to illustrate it, it seems that this Waves plug-in is reporting changes even more often.

So as a workaround, you can turn off the auto-save every X changes on projects that use the plug-in, or, since it's a metering plug-in, bypass it when you're not reading the meter. Whatever, an analysis plug-in shouldn't be reporting ANY changes to Cakewalk, so if turning off save every X changes makes the problem go away, Waves need to be informed about it. I don't know if there's anything that can be done on Cakewalk's side; they're probably at the mercy of the plug-in reporting accurately that it has changed something.