viewing System Exclusive data?? SOLVED

[John Vere]

In the million years I've used midi I've actually never had to have anything to do with creating or saving System Exclusive data. It's just something I would see in the back of my owners manuals and the message sometimes appears when you open a Midi file that there is System Exclusive data in the file and do I want to load it. I usually say yes thinking along the lines that it can do no harm to Cakewalk.It's purpose seems to be for Hardware, right? . It might do harm to my sound modules but they are not hooked up...  

But I've often had these midi files that misbehave. Things like you can't set the volume of an instrument or patches that don't stick. The solution is usually easily fixed in the Event list but sometimes these things are not showing there?? 

The workaround would be to sometimes slip edit the track a bit and what ever was hiding at the start of the track would be ignored. This doesn't always work. What does seem to work is to copy the midi dat to a fresh track. Why does this work>?? you would think you also copied the hidden data that was causing you grief??  

There's a thread goin right now where the OP has a problem with the Transport not starting right away. This happens to me from time to time and it just happened last night. I have a lot of CWP files that have absolutely no audio that are my backing tracks. I need to put together about 50 songs for a gig in October. About at song number 7 I run into this same issue where the transport does not start right away. I get a Blue circle for about 3 seconds. Normally I just get P'd off but carry on. This time because of the other thread I decide I'll investigate. 

Turns out it is a certain midi track causing this and only causes it with True Piano's??  

Song is a downloaded mid file. I have reworked it probably a few times over the last 10 years so not sure what the original file was. But only one track when un muted causes the transport to stall. If you mute it the transport responded properly.

I tried a few things. The only 2 thing that works is to change the instrument to anything but True pianos or to copy the midi data to a blank track?? . If I replace it with any other VST no more stall. If I re install True pianos it stalls again. Copying the data to a fresh track allows me to use True Pianos. 

So what the heck is hiding from me in that original track. Is this system Exclusive data??? How do you view it? 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Cactus Music

[John Vere]

Here' s the file  the offending track is 9 and 10 , 

AT the HOP.cwp

Edited September 18, 2022 by Cactus Music

[Skyline_UK]

I wish there was a way in the Sysex View to delete all entries in a MIDI file en masse .  I always have to go to the Events View, apply the filters to see only the Sysex entries and delete them there.

[John Vere]

Is there a Sysex view?  I’m going to feel really dumb if there is, and now you’ve mentioned it I do believe there is!  

Edit : Well Son of a gun!  why is it you can use software for 30 years and still find something you've been looking for was right under your nose! Now I'll check here next time a downloaded project misbehaves. 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Cactus Music

[User 905133]

5 minutes ago, Cactus Music said:

Is there a Sysex view?  I’m going to feel really dumb if there is, and now you’ve mentioned it I do believe there is!  

Its been in Cakewalk SONAR for decades. The last time I looked it was sill there.  In the early days, it was great for storing and loading patch and sequencer data and controlling parameters on hardware that had a few buttons, a single knob, etc. Especially handy when you find out that a module's 30+ year old battery died and you need to reload user preset banks.  Also handy for hardware that only had volatile memory for user patches and no battery whatsoever.

 

[John Vere]

Ya I found it. Thanks. I edited my post above. 

[User 905133]

BTW, I mined various E-Mu patch banks formats, documented undocumented sysex controllable parameters on the P2K/CS line, etc. using Cakewalk's sysex view. Tedious to be comprehensive, but fairly easy to set up banks of sysex commands in SONAR/Cakewalk, tweak values, see what changes, and note the actual range/results (as opposed to what the documentation said).  

Nowadays people who use software synths and FX have exposed parameters for micro-managing parameters (provided the manufacturer make them available).  

[User 905133]

8 hours ago, Skyline_UK said:

I wish there was a way in the Sysex View to delete all entries in a MIDI file en masse .  I always have to go to the Events View, apply the filters to see only the Sysex entries and delete them there.

Are you talking about sysex banks, sysex data, or both? 

[Skyline_UK]

The data, i.e. the non 'Empty' ones.

[User 905133]

1 hour ago, Skyline_UK said:

The data, i.e. the non 'Empty' ones.

I could be wrong, but for as long as I can remember, the sysex view only listed system exclusive banks.  To me, the way to filter out different data types (including system exclusive data that is embedded in tracks) is to use the filter as you have done.  

Maybe it should be called Sysex Bank View. Or maybe there could be an optional feature to (1) convert all in-track sysex data to sysex banks, (2) swap out the data for banks, and (3) add them to the list of banks.

JMO: Considering the Event List / Filter method already exists, works, and doesn't take much effort to do, it seems to me it wouldn't be a top development priority. 

But maybe they could add a "Bankize Track-Embedded Sysex Data" button and a "Delete All Banks" button.  For people who have Cakewalk projects done with hardware that uses sysex and want to convert them to soft synth projects that don't use sysex, the buttons might be handy.

On 9/18/2022 at 1:17 PM, User 905133 said:

Are you talking about sysex banks, sysex data, or both? 

1 hour ago, Skyline_UK said:

The data, i.e. the non 'Empty' ones.

  Hmmmm. On second thought, maybe you meant sysex banks? 

Edited September 20, 2022 by User 905133
(3) correction (2) added a "second thought" (1) added suggestion for two buttons and an use for them

[msmcleod]

There are two ways of dealing with SysEx data, either in Banks or as inline events.

In Preferences->MIDI->Playback and Recording, there's a "Always Use Sysx Bands for MIDI Files (Instead of Sysx Data)" setting, which I believe is checked by default.

If this is checked, then any Sysex data will be moved to banks - if it's unchecked, it'll stay inline in the sequence.

Banks can be easier to deal with in most cases.  The only time I ever use inline events is when sending firmware updates to hardware over MIDI.