I know free plugins can sometimes cause crashes, but can that be the case for free Kontakt libraries too?

[Christian Jones]

I'm having some issues tonight w/ CbB freezing intermittently but frequently soon after launching a new session and w/o really doing much more than adding a midi and audio track (before even recording any midi or audio data), so I may post a different thread on that soon if my troubleshooting is not fruitful. But first I just wanted to ask--because maybe this is the cause--if free kontakt libraries sometimes cause problems the same way that some free plugins can? I mean, I use the latest update of Kontakt 5, so on the one hand since Kontakt 5 is stable you'd think free libraries causing crashes like some free plugins can would be a non-issue since the host is stable, but is that really the case? I'm messing w/ this free kontakt library called Trumpette and when I'm using it that's when I seem to notice the freezing but that may just be coincidental and it's not always the case either so it's one of those things where I'm trying to narrow it down, but I also have no major issue cutting that library loose if I have to. Thanks 

[msmcleod]

It's certainly possible.

Kontakt includes a scripting language so that sample library developers can provide specific behaviour for their libraries. There's absolutely no reason why there couldn't be (a) bugs in the developer's scripts and/or (b) bugs in the Kontakt scripting engine itself. 

 

[razor7music]

This may be a long shot, but in my previous DAW I only had 8 GBs of DDR2 RAM. I would have many performance issues when loading NI drum libraries. After troubleshooting, it was determined that I didn't have enough "fast" RAM to handle all those samples.

My current DAW has 16 GB's of DDR3 RAM and I have no more issues with the exact same libraries.

In case that helps...

[Craig Anderton]

Make sure you're using the latest Kontakt update...and that the developer is too

[Christian Jones]

2 hours ago, razor7music said:

This may be a long shot, but in my previous DAW I only had 8 GBs of DDR2 RAM. I would have many performance issues when loading NI drum libraries. After troubleshooting, it was determined that I didn't have enough "fast" RAM to handle all those samples.

My current DAW has 16 GB's of DDR3 RAM and I have no more issues with the exact same libraries.

In case that helps...

Just curious, what type of performance issues where you having? Like, when you'd go to load those demanding drum libraries, would they just not load up properly, or would they load but maybe they would glitch or have some click/pop/other noise artifacts during playback? 

Because I have only 8gb of ram on Windows 10 (don't recall if it's ddr2 or 3), and when using the Synth Magic Quadra vst, it will load but many of the sounds have this weird static/clip noise right at the beginning/attack of, say, a bass note - but just right at the attack of the note, not the whole duration of it when sustained. Steve from Synth Magic thinks it's my dated audio interface (RME 9632), though I'm able to play many as his other Synth Magic vsts with no problems so I'm wondering if maybe it's the limited ram (8gb - which I thought would've been enough for vsts if they even use the ram as I think some vsts stream from disk). Steve did say the Quadra was very demanding. Anyway thanks for the post. Maybe I should score a 4th of July ram deal. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Christian Jones

[Starship Krupa]

The licensing model of plug-ins or libraries has no bearing on whether Cakewalk will freeze or crash. Cakewalk has no way of knowing how they are licensed, and as we know, Cakewalk itself is licensed via a free subscription.

Freezes and crashes from plug-ins come from buggy (or just incompatible) code, and they exist in both free and pay licensed plug-ins. As a consumer, one has to take care whenever using anything, check forums to see if other people have had trouble with the thing, take advantage of free trials and demos, etc. While it's true that free plug-ins are more likely to be coded by one person working alone in their studio, that may also be true of ones we have to pay for as well. A couple of my favorite and highly respected plug-in houses are one-man coders (Boz, Melda), and I have never heard of anyone having trouble with their software (and both of them  give away free plug-ins!).

I love my Sonivox Orchestral Companions, but they have a pretty nasty incompatibility with a number of DAW's including Mixcraft, which was my primary before Cakewalk. Also FL Studio, I think, and maybe Samplitude. If you put your playback into loop mode, after the first iteration, playback  goes into this staccato mode, which made mixing a real pain in the tuchus. Fortunately the devs at Acoustica did a workaround, and double fortunately, the bug doesn't manifest in Cakewalk.

Pardon my soapbox, but I like to counter what I see as unwarranted fear, uncertainty and doubt about free licensed software. There was a TON of it in the old Cakewalk forum when BandLab came to the rescue. It can be as good or as buggy as anything else. In either case, check the reputation and be careful. Caveat emptor for any software.

As Mark said, Kontakt libraries can include all kinds of things in addition to just the samples, and Trumpette may have boogered up the scripting. And yes, if you're into stuff like Kontakt, you should probably spring for more RAM. I'm at 8G myself and long overdue. I'm tired of tiptoeing around with system resources. Your post here is a good reminder!

[Christian Jones]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

The licensing model of plug-ins or libraries has no bearing on whether Cakewalk will freeze or crash. Cakewalk has no way of knowing how they are licensed, and as we know, Cakewalk itself is licensed via a free subscription.

Freezes and crashes from plug-ins come from buggy (or just incompatible) code, and they exist in both free and pay licensed plug-ins. As a consumer, one has to take care whenever using anything, check forums to see if other people have had trouble with the thing, take advantage of free trials and demos, etc. While it's true that free plug-ins are more likely to be coded by one person working alone in their studio, that may also be true of ones we have to pay for as well. A couple of my favorite and highly respected plug-in houses are one-man coders (Boz, Melda), and I have never heard of anyone having trouble with their software (and both of them  give away free plug-ins!).

I love my Sonivox Orchestral Companions, but they have a pretty nasty incompatibility with a number of DAW's including Mixcraft, which was my primary before Cakewalk. Also FL Studio, I think, and maybe Samplitude. If you put your playback into loop mode, after the first iteration, playback  goes into this staccato mode, which made mixing a real pain in the tuchus. Fortunately the devs at Acoustica did a workaround, and double fortunately, the bug doesn't manifest in Cakewalk.

Pardon my soapbox, but I like to counter what I see as unwarranted fear, uncertainty and doubt about free licensed software. There was a TON of it in the old Cakewalk forum when BandLab came to the rescue. It can be as good or as buggy as anything else. In either case, check the reputation and be careful. Caveat emptor for any software.

As Mark said, Kontakt libraries can include all kinds of things in addition to just the samples, and Trumpette may have boogered up the scripting. And yes, if you're into stuff like Kontakt, you should probably spring for more RAM. I'm at 8G myself and long overdue. I'm tired of tiptoeing around with system resources. Your post here is a good reminder!

Great post and informative as usual dude, thanks. I got 8gb ddr3 as it turns out, but I'll go ahead and score a 16gb deal. I can buy any vst I want but I mess w/ some of these free ones cuz some of them are cool and I like weird sounds. 

[marcL]

1. Actually there should not be a difference concerning bugs, wether you have 8 GB or 16 GB. This should only affect the performance, i.e. it could cause drop outs, slower performing or even a message that it is not possible to load something. But in reality most developers do not handle all events and cases properly (these are also bugs in fact), I would even say in nowadays software world with so many software interfaces and components it's almost impossible to manage. Hence the addition of hardware components (memory, processor speed, faster storage, ...) can help, because it may prevent some cases (that are not programmed correctly) to occur!
2. My 5 cents to free software: It is my experience (as developer), the less people have created/changed a software, the better and more stable it is! Consequently this speaks for free software. The only advantage of sold software is that they address problems and bugs better for most of the time.

[Tezza]

I've only got 8gig ram and don't have problems with the Komplete Ultimate 10 libraries in Kontakt 5. I'm not sure how many I use on one track though, drums, bass, pianos, trumpets and then reaktor synths etc. I have my libraries on a dedicated internal SSD though.

[bitflipper]

Although theoretically not impossible (e.g. corrupt files) I have never experienced any hangs or crashes related to free Kontakt libraries. In fact, they are often less prone to problems because they aren't as heavily scripted. Many of them contain no scripting at all.

The only issues I've encountered have had to do with poor sound quality: too much stretching,  bad loop edits, noise or distortion in the samples, inconsistent levels or mistakes in mapping (gaps or overlaps). 

Free plugins, OTOH, that's a whole 'nother can o' worms. 

(BTW, if you're specifically looking for a good but cheap trumpet, check out Blue Street Brass from Indiginus. $79 and you get a bunch of trumpets and related instruments such as a flugelhorn, trombone and civil war bugle.)