Bluegrass Guitar vst?

[fret_man]

Seeking some ideas here. I am programming some traditional bluegrass pieces and having difficulty finding a suitable guitar sound. I've found other instruments that are suitable, like:

• Mandolin: Orange Tree (can work around its deficiencies, it can be very good)
• Banjo: AmpleSound (can work around the left hand engine, it can be very good)
• Bass: AmpleSound (no issues. very good)
• Fiddle: Indiginus (sounds great but working out the articulations takes a lot of time)

But Guitars, nope. I've tried these but all have been found wanting:

• AmpleSound: Martin, Taylor, Gibson: too modern-sounding, bright, too "key-boardy". EQ'ing makes these better but the "key-boardy" sound is still there. I'm an AmpleSound fanboy and wanted these to work so badly. But no....
• OrangeTree: Steel String has too many note issues (fret buzz, un-even sound). Dry Relic is close, but something doesn't quite seem right for bluegrass. I think the strings are a little TOO dead for this.

Next, I'm gonna try NI's Session Guitar Picked Acoustic and Bolder Sounds' Motiv. But are there other's out there that I should consider? I don't want a bright, modern sound.

Thank you for any recommendations you can offer.

 

[John Vere]

Definatly the mainstay of traditional Bluegrass was the Martin D 28 so you'd be looking at anyone who has sampled that guitar. Sorry I havn't yet dabbled in using guitars as a VST but the day will come as my arthritis gets worse. I sometimes cheat a little and slow the song down to record fast parts and then speed it back up. It would be interesting to do this and use Melodyne to create midi from it. 

[fret_man]

4 hours ago, John Vere said:

Definatly the mainstay of traditional Bluegrass was the Martin D 28 so you'd be looking at anyone who has sampled that guitar. Sorry I havn't yet dabbled in using guitars as a VST but the day will come as my arthritis gets worse. I sometimes cheat a little and slow the song down to record fast parts and then speed it back up. It would be interesting to do this and use Melodyne to create midi from it. 

Yes, I've done that and it works pretty well. You capture the timing, notes, and amplitude that way, but you lose slide and hammer-on/pull-off articulations. You also lose fret position. You would then use the VST to add those things you lost in the audio-MIDI translation. Kind of tedious but you can get a quite realistic result, if you can find the right guitar sound, which I haven't yet. All the Martin VSTs I've tried so far are way too bright and steely. EQ doesn't quite fix them.

[Starship Krupa]

I'm no connoisseur of guitar plug-ins, but I've gotten some decent results with Applied Acoustics' Strum Session and the Strum soundpacks that come with Swatches. Once you get a handle on the different articulations, you can do a lot of interesting things with it.

Modeled, not sampled, but the results are what counts.

IIRC, the whole A|A|S Sessions bundle is on sale right now somewhere for $10.

[abacab]

9 hours ago, fret_man said:

Fiddle: Indiginus (sounds great but working out the articulations takes a lot of time)

I see you have the Fiddle from Indiginus. Have you checked out any of his guitars? This Renegade Acoustic is a sampled Martin D-18.

https://www.indiginus.com/renegade-acoustic-guitar

[John Vere]

That sound real good but it is so far removed from sounding like a real Martin it's not funny! It makes you realize what the OP is up against. They  sort of sound tinny and way to bright. I have Ample and Strum Session and as I say, they have a good "sound" but it's not a really an acoustic guitar sound as we know it from recording the real deal. There's always sort of a Harpsicord attack like the strings were hit with somthing and not picked. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by John Vere

[fret_man]

I really appreciate everyone's opinions, inputs, and suggestions. I've found NI's Session Guitarist Picked Acoustic to not be too bad, especially if you use the dynamic or ribbon mics. Those really warm the sound up a lot. I think this might work for me so I'm going to play with this some more. It has some limitations which I'm currently attempting to work around, which include:

• Slides are fixed duration, maybe too slow for very fast bluegrass runs.
• Hammer-on/pull-offs can sound strange unless you pick specific velocity for both source/destination notes. Destination note velocity has to be turned way, way down.
• I still get fret noises even when I turn fret noise down to 0. In fact, so far I've heard no changes as I sweep the fret noise from 0% to 100%.
• I wish I could lower the pick noise a little. Maybe a little Transgressor or RX Click Remover might help some.
• This sounds best when I keep velocity below 80%.

But it sounds pretty good to my ears so far. It's an old Martin 00-21, not a D-28, but it's good enough for me. I think.

Edited June 25, 2022 by fret_man

[fret_man]

Just to bring this to a close,  NI's Session Guitarist Picked Acoustic has 2 basic sounds - picked and fingered. Fingered sounds pretty realistic, which means it's not acceptable for bluegrass. Picked sounds like they used a cheap, thin plastic pick that scrapes along the string, producing too much raspy string attack which, again, is not appropriate for bluegrass. However, if you use their built-in "warm EQ" (I set it to 75%) and RX9's Mouth De-click, you can eliminate much of that.

You can hear the results here.

In hindsight, I think it may have been easier to use abacab's idea and try the Indiginus' Renegade Acoustic. It may give me a useable sound with less fuss. I'll wait for a sale and try get it for next time.

Thanks again for all your comments.

 

[abacab]

4 hours ago, fret_man said:

In hindsight, I think it may have been easier to use abacab's idea and try the Indiginus' Renegade Acoustic.

Tracy Collins of Indiginus seems like an outstanding nice guy! I have bought several of his libraries. Here is an interview with him in one of Simeon Amburgey's live streams. Very interesting, as Tracy recounts the early days of sampling, and more!

"Tracy Collins, the founder of Indiginus, has been creating sample libraries long before the introduction of Kontakt. My introduction to his libraries came with IK Multimedia's THE RESONATOR, and I had to find out more about this developer and the other instruments he has produced. Join me as we will meet the man behind Indiginus and discover a few of his amazing and playable libraries. We will also be highlighting Indiginus' latest library "The Fiddle", which carries on the tradition of playability, emotion, and value"

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by abacab