Configuring Cakewalk MIdi Tracks - Not to tamper with MIdi Events

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Preface:

I have concluded that Cakewalk applies  (unwanted, over zealous) rules and changes Midi Events (which are fully compliant with MID standards, but it does not know about) especially related to CC 00/32 and Program Changes.

Please accept this, as I do not want to spend a lot of time showing/proving this.
I have already written a lot about these before, and trust me I am quite competent with MIDI and I have also ramped to a significant level on Cakewalk.
To the point Cakewalk has become my staple.  

Appreciate your thoughts/help with just the focused question below,  rather than discussing the above preface (and/or other ways to accomplish the results).

Context:

Korg PA600, like most Keyboards/Synths,  uses the MIDI events (CC 00/32, Program Change) for selecting Styles, Selecting Variations, Start/Stop/Break, Fills etc.
These are standard MIDI  events with channel number set to Control Channel, and  MSB/LSB parameter values set as per their documentation.

I have many MIDI files that use these and apply them, for changing Styles and Patches several times during a Song.

These Midi Files play fine using any Midi Player.

Question:

How do I make Cakewalk load/play a MIDI play file as-is without changing the contents?  

Is there a configuration settings for this?

Bit More..

I am going to explore/check if I can add those Style Control sequences as valid instruments in the .INS file.
This will be an undesirable hack, even if it works. But I will find out.

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sridhar Raghavan
typos

[David Baay]

I haven't concerned myself with Cakewalk's handling of GM files for a couple decades, but... what's the specific unexpected/undesired result? Are you using an Instrument Definition with the Korg? If you assign the output of the track(s) to TTS-1 or an onboard 'Wavetable' synth does the project play as expected?

[user 905133]

15 hours ago, Sridhar Raghavan said:

Bit More..

I am going to explore/check if I can add those Style Control sequences as valid instruments in the .INS file.
This will be an undesirable hack, even if it works. But I will find out.

I remember a previous discussion about this. As I mentioned my experience with style changes  was with some Roland Intelligent modules. These were relatively easy to understand and implement compared to what I read in the PA600 manual.  It was rewarding being able to embed midi commands to change styles and related controls.  I hope you can master the PA600's controls.

Edited June 16, 2022 by User 905133
to add a link to a previous discussion and remove "probably"

[Sridhar Raghavan]

David Baay: you might have triggered a thought with "GM Files" - may be I need a way to change that to say "this is not GM". Thanks.

Usr905133: I have been using PA600 and controlling it via MIDI since 2013. Comprehensively.  As I have said before, I have tons of Python Code for generating MIDI files expressed in my simple specification language.  I will post a sample of it, in case I have not already done so before, to give you a flavor.  (Certainly not for any other reasons).

Thanks you very much, both, for staying on the focus I requested.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sridhar Raghavan
typo

[user 905133]

5 minutes ago, Sridhar Raghavan said:

Usr905133: I have been using PA600 and controlling it via MIDI since 2013. Comprehensively.  As I have said before, I have tons of Python Code for generating MIDI files expressed in my simple specification language.  I will post a sample of it, in case I have not already done so before, to give you a flavor.  (Certainly not for any other reasons).

No need; I don't do anything with Python, but thanks for the offer.  Moreover, I was expressing hope that you can successfully create an *.ins file that lets you use the midi commands to do style changes. It made the workflow easier for me with the Roland Intelligent Arrangers.

[David Baay]

I guess I misconstrued "These Midi Files play fine using any Midi Player" to be suggesting the files were meant to be GM-compatible.

But I was wondering how the 'Style' commands would be expected to work with non-Korg instrument - maybe just ignored...?  Related to that, and User 905133's comment about Roland Intelligent Arrangers, when I first got my RD-700NX I recall spending some time modifying an INS file to support it's 'Live Sets' implementation of multitimbral instrument assignments. This was mostly a learning exercise, and I didn't ultimately make much use of it, but it did work.

I'm still not clear on what's in the MIDI files that's not being handled as expected or what the result of that mishandling is, but it sounds like some customization  of the INS file might be needed.

[Sridhar Raghavan]

As per MIDI Standard, any command that is received by a Synth, which it does not know/support will be ignored. 
Of course MIDI commands are expected to be VALID and consistent with MIDI standards.

What Cakewalk does?

a) It converts the MIDI events into something else - which it thinks it should be. Like over zealous Spelling/Grammar correctors.

b) When I insert Bank/Patch change,  it works only when you can pick from the drop down lists (which it builds from INS file).  

c) But even in (b) it does not allow adding a specific Bank/Patch to Channel 16 !! (Channel 16 is my control channel - and that is where I need to insert Bank/Program message for controlling Styles).  See the screen shot.  (May be, Cakewalk does not need to know it is a Control Channel. I will give that a shot).

Sadly these are breaking the foundational / fundamental compliance with MIDI,  for no sane reasons,
It may also mangle valid MIDI files existing and/or created using other tools/methods and preventing them from being played correctly by target synths 

Furthermore..

Cakewalk does not display MIDI Events in the MIDI Events Viewer in simple  Time, Status, Data1, Data2 format.
A format that applies universally to all MIDI messages and extensively documented everywhere and in use for years.    
Cakewalk wants to displays events in its own way,  supposedly for making the easier, but only obscures the real data by imposing its own lens. 
Cakewalk should at least give an option to display basic MIDI data format - which all MIDI programmers use. 

(I hope Cakewalk Staff are monitoring and putting some corrections and/or feature requests. I am writing these only with the intention that Cakewalk, as a tool, is robust, rigorous. standards compliant, and user empathetic). 

See the screen shot below.  Notes area may not be readable in the screen shot. So I have cut/pasted it here.

[Track 1 Channel is 1
Track 2 Channel is 16.

I am able to add Bank/Program Change on Track 1 to Channel 1.

But I cannot add Bank/Program Change to Channel 16. 
The Drop down for Bank is Empty. ]

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sridhar Raghavan
typos

[Sridhar Raghavan]

A quick update. 
I noticed that Instrument Files need to be assigned every channel - and I had not mapped Channel 16 to Korg INS file. 

Sure there might be a way to assign INS file to all channels and Drumkit.INS to the drum channel.

So some glitter of hope. 

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Success!!!  Quite excited that I can get Style Controls to Work now.
Fine-Grained details still needs some attention, tweaking, and confirmation. 

I am able to send Bank/Program Change on Channel 16 and Select Change PA600 Style.

But there is a problem with  Insert->Program/Change menu as it does not seem to update the Channel number properly.
I have to manually edit/set the channel number to 16 on the Midi Events view. I am sure this would behind me soon.

Overall,  I think, all the minor issues / idiosyncrasies can be fixed and a solid reliable working method/process can be put in place.

I will share/update the final approach/process here, once I am done. 

P.S. I also believe that much of the issues I was observing before [for a few months] will go away once an INS file is associated with every channel. 
Will check these also for CAL scripts.  

Adding screen shot showing Channel 16->Korg PA600 mapping.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sridhar Raghavan
added screen shot

[user 905133]

Congratulations on getting the changes to work on Channel 16 so the style changes work!

[Sridhar Raghavan]

Usr 905133:

yes this also paves way for using MIDI tracks in Cakewalk for harnessing the full power of MIDI and External Synths through their Custom MIDI Sequences.  (should also apply to VSTs).  

I hope Cakewalk addresses some of these issues discussed here and makes the application of unnecessary rules optional. 

INS file are, philosophically speaking, STATIC slow changing. But I create new Styles and Performance, like everyday - so they are pretty dynamic. This just means that I will just  create PA600Style.INS with symbolic names, covering potentially all the references (Factory, User, Favorite categories, and within that Page Number (1-16) and Item Number (1-8).   

What is the approach you used/using for Roland Arrangers?