Ryzen 7000 Series CPU's Announced

[Larry Shelby]

 

[LittleStudios]

 

[Jim Roseberry]

For Ryzen 7k, AMD is touting 15% single-thread increase.

Intel Alder Lake i9-10900ks (5.5GHz) currently bests the 5950x by roughly that margin.

Ryzen 7k is supposed to compete with Intel's (yet to be released) Raptor Lake.

Though it's early (with few actual benchmarks), Raptor Lake is supposed to achieve ~10% increase.

 

If all this holds true, Intel will hold a slight performance advantage.

The more things change... the more they stay the same   ?

 

 

[Jim Roseberry]

Raptor Lake is supposed to use significantly less voltage.

That should drop CPU temps... or allow significant clock-speed increase.

 

One thing about current 16+ core AMD and Intel CPUs:

Temp fluctuations can be fairly dramatic (AMD even more so).

If you leave stock settings, fans will frequently ramp up/down (lots of noise).

You can get a Ryzen 5k system to be quiet... but it involves more extreme tweaking.

Lower voltage (lower temps) should help keep noise from escalating (even with higher clock-speed). 

 

 

 

[Olong Johnson]

The computer I built last year is the one I always dreamed of: absolutely dead quiet with NO water cooling:

Ryzen 5600x w/ Dark Rock Slim cooler
Fractal Design Define 7 Compact case
Corsair RM750x PSU
all NVMe/SSD (this set me back a bit but it was worth it)
MSI GTX 1070 (still waiting for a reasonable price on an RTX)
all stock settings

I literally cannot hear a sound from this system, even when gaming.

 

[Jim Roseberry]

Water Cooling can be extremely quiet... IF... you pick the right cooler.

The key is getting one with pump noise ~10dB.

 

I've got both 12900ks and 5950x based DAWs.

For maximum performance, you can't run either one without water-cooling.  (Same is true with the 10980xe)

Well... you can... but it'll thermal-throttle under heavy loads (rendering video), which kind of defeats the purpose.  ?

On YouTube, you'll see some folks running ThreadRipper (280w TDP) with a NH-U14S cooler. 

It runs... but nowhere near full potential.

With 280w TDP, there is no building a "quiet" machine.  To add insult to injury, the motherboard chipsets are active cooled (small fan).

For these reasons... and poor ultra low latency performance, I won't build ThreadRipper based DAWs for myself or clients.

With Ryzen 5k series, AMD finally got their ultra low latency performance together.

 

Ultra low latency performance wise, Intel's 11th Generation 11900k was actually a step backward (vs the 10900k).

Ryzen 5950x bests the 10900k and 11900k (both single-core and multi-core performance).

The 12900k then leap-frogged the 5950x (both single-core and multi-core performance).

The latest 12900ks is basically a 12900k that can clock up to 5.5GHz (vs 5.2GHz for the 12900k).

 

If you're pushing the limits of ultra low latency performance, the 12900ks is currently the best performer.

Working at say 1ms total round-trip latency is not something that lends itself to being heavily multi-threaded.

Clock-speed is the single most important factor.

With the 12900ks, you've got highest clock-speed available... and 16 cores (best of both worlds).

 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Jim Roseberry

[InstrEd]

I'm just glad we have competition in the CPU space. Hope it stays that way!

[kitekrazy1]

If I build another budget system it will be one of those AMD 6 core, 65 Watt systems that comes with a cooler.  With the insane cost of graphics cards I wouldn't rule out a CPU with it built in.

Super duper systems are really nice for bragging rights and for those who rely on them for income but I haven't really starved out my older 4790. 

When you do this as a hobby somewhere you need to get a grasp knowing you aren't going to do 400 tracks but I guess it's there if you need it.  It's like knowing you'll never be good enough at guitar to where you will play in front of people but yet get a high end PRS.

There was a person on another forum who built a new system and spent more time running benchmarks instead of load the DAW and do what you normally do.

Software development is not so great these days and some could put even high end systems to a crawl. 

[jackson white]

2 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Raptor Lake is supposed to use significantly less voltage.

That should drop CPU temps... or allow significant clock-speed increase.

One thing about current 16+ core AMD and Intel CPUs:

Temp fluctuations can be fairly dramatic (AMD even more so).

I sure hope so.  CPU cooling/fan noise are an issue for the rack mounted systems here and the latest Alder Lake (3.6GHz?) is cranking it up even further.  I recently O/C'd an i7 to scope out VST CPU load and saw CPU temps running at the edge of my comfort zone...  

Have not given water cooling a shot yet based on mixed and unconfirmed anecdotal hearsay wrt to reliability, but ambient temps are not getting any lower... 

[jackson white]

7 minutes ago, Paul Young said:

Software development is not so great these days and some could put even high end systems to a crawl. 

perhaps, but the trend to model the dynamic complexities of analog gear is bound to tax the limits of current hw performance. Most def it is a programming challenge that might beneft from better algos, but despite my skepticism, I'm starting to hear a difference that is closer to the analog gear I still use. Horses for courses, but consider something like Pong vs games today that feature extensive RT physics modelling to create a vastly superior user experience.  I'm intrigued by the potential, learning to balance the tradeoffs w/o losing track of only point that matters, which is to create music that makes a difference. 

[Jim Roseberry]

1 hour ago, jackson white said:

I sure hope so.  CPU cooling/fan noise are an issue for the rack mounted systems here and the latest Alder Lake (3.6GHz?) is cranking it up even further.  I recently O/C'd an i7 to scope out VST CPU load and saw CPU temps running at the edge of my comfort zone...  

Have not given water cooling a shot yet based on mixed and unconfirmed anecdotal hearsay wrt to reliability, but ambient temps are not getting any lower... 

There's a reason why we don't offer the 10900k and 10900ks in a rack case.  ?

 

I had one of the first Pong games that allowed up to 4 players.

Nothing like what the kids have today.  (obviously)

[Tim Smith]

For a computer enthusiasts it's all about the latest and the fastest.

For the DAW or video editor, the question is- What do I need to make this happen? Most of us want some overkill just in case.

I still haven't changed up my old system *yet*.  I haven't had a need to do so but I'm beginning to feel the impending pinch of advancing more demanding software. I really like win 10 pro and am not especially crazy about jumping to win 11 any time soon.

Any time a new product is released I wait until the dust settles and then I look at the competition.

 

[kitekrazy1]

29 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

There's a reason why we don't offer the 10900k and 10900ks in a rack case.  ?

 

I had one of the first Pong games that allowed up to 4 players.

Nothing like what the kids have today.  (obviously)

Not always better either.   There's a reason why the GTA and CoD games always sell.  They are playable on most systems.  I still fail to see the attraction of Fortnie other that is can be played on anything.

[Jim Roseberry]

1 hour ago, Paul Young said:

When you do this as a hobby somewhere you need to get a grasp knowing you aren't going to do 400 tracks but I guess it's there if you need it.  It's like knowing you'll never be good enough at guitar to where you will play in front of people but yet get a high end PRS.

It's not just about running 400 tracks.

It's about being able to effectively work at super small ASIO buffer sizes.

Some newer audio interfaces (Antelope, Presonus Quantum, etc) allow round-trip latency as low as sub 1ms.

ie: Playing thru guitar processing plugins (in realtime) at 1-2ms total round-trip latency are now possible/practical (while running a project).

You can't do that with an older/slower machine.

May not seem like a big deal, but that makes the playing experience similar to playing thru an Axe-FX, Helix, Quad Cortex, etc.

 

Developers will always find a way to use faster CPUs.

Things we take for granted today (Melodyne, etc) weren't possible back in Cakewalk Pro Audio 6.0 days.

I could run 48+ tracks back then... but software based reverb/etc was primitive (Cakewalk's reverb was mono).

Quality of plugins has increased dramatically.

 

BTW, You don't have to be a world-class chef or food-critic to enjoy a great steak or glass of wine.

PRS guitars are wonderful instruments... whether you're a world-class player... or just a hobbyist.

There's SE (import), S2 (US with some import hardware), Core (USA), Wood Library, and Private Stock 

[kitekrazy1]

1 minute ago, Jim Roseberry said:

It's not just about running 400 tracks.

It's about being able to effectively work at super small ASIO buffer sizes.

Some newer audio interfaces (Antelope, Presonus Quantum, etc) allow round-trip latency as low as sub 1ms.

ie: Playing thru guitar processing plugins (in realtime) at 1-2ms total round-trip latency are now possible/practical (while running a project).

You can't do that with an older/slower machine.

May not seem like a big deal, but that makes the playing experience similar to playing thru an Axe-FX, Helix, Quad Cortex, etc.

 

Developers will always find a way to use faster CPUs.

Things we take for granted today (Melodyne, etc) weren't possible back in Cakewalk Pro Audio 6.0 days.

I could run 48+ tracks back then... but software based reverb/etc was primitive (Cakewalk's reverb was mono).

Quality of plugins has increased dramatically.

 

BTW, You don't have to be a world-class chef or food-critic to enjoy a great steak or glass of wine.

PRS guitars are wonderful instruments... whether you're a world-class player... or just a hobbyist.

There's SE (import), S2 (US with some import hardware), Core (USA), Wood Library, and Private Stock 

I have to start looking at things from a financial point of view.  Our shoes are much different as explained.  My last build was a 9900K.  It's more than enough.  I bought all of the parts during the Covid lockdowns and couldn't build the same specs today at the price.    

As for PRS I still have an older Santana SE with a wide fat neck.  If I were to put down some serious money it would be a PRS.  I would have to justify my abilities to be worthy of one.    

[Jim Roseberry]

1 hour ago, Paul Young said:

Not always better either.   There's a reason why the GTA and CoD games always sell.  They are playable on most systems.  I still fail to see the attraction of Fortnie other that is can be played on anything.

 

I don't play any video games.

I spend all day every day working with computers.

I like my down-time away from them.  

[Jim Roseberry]

2 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

For the DAW or video editor, the question is- What do I need to make this happen?

 

Working with video footage (especially 4k) is a whole lot more demanding than multi-track audio.

Realtime video processing (chroma-key, particle effects, etc) can bring even the fastest machine to its knees.

 

A couple years back, I did a one-minute 3D Animation with Cinema 4D (1920 x 1080).

It was a scene of a simulated studio control room.

With a 9900k, the render took over 24 hours.