CC Search back

[rfssongs]

I am having problems with inserted control changes in the track as well as volumes entered in the Track view settings. I can no longer find the setting for CC search back. I believe I saw somewhere that it was now the default behavior. It is not working if that is the case.

Otherwise - is there still a setting for this ?

Example:

I have entered a pedal down & a solo CC at the beginning of a track sent to my MX-88. Every time I stop the play to edit I lose the settings on restart. I have to manually perform these CC just to get the playback to sound correctly on restart every time. In addition to that the volume changes do not always follow the settings either.

[David Baay]

It is enabled by default I believe. Preferences > Project > MIDI > Other Options

[rfssongs]

4 hours ago, David Baay said:

It is enabled by default I believe. Preferences > Project > MIDI > Other Options

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I could disable zero controllers when play stops, still I think I remember a search back function that would look for the most recent CC changes as play re-starts. There are times when you want both - especially with pedal events.

I do think you are referencing Midi Chase back though, Per the reference for midi event chase on play:

"If this option is enabled, Cakewalk searches for and sends the most recent patch change, wheel, and pedal events on each output and MIDI channel before starting playback. This ensures that all these settings are correct, even if you start playback at an arbitrary point in your project."

This seems to miss both volume & CC that are not wheel & pedal events. If this description is inclusive.

 

 

[David Baay]

1 hour ago, rfssongs said:

This seems to miss both volume & CC that are not wheel & pedal events. If this description is inclusive.

Hmmm... I'd have to check that. The name was originally "Controller Searchback" and was changed when Note Chase was added to be consistent with terminology commonly used in other DAWs. I have always understood that searchback/chase looks for all controller types and am pretty sure it works for Volume and Sustain.

[Promidi]

Preferences | Project | MIDI > select “MIDI Event Chase on Play”

This always works for me and I use many CC events in my projects.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Promidi

[David Baay]

I verified this is all working as expected for sustain and volume controllers, and Zero controllers does not have any effect on CC7 Volume, anyway, so even if searchback/chase were not working the last volume in effect should persist after stop/start. And if the MIDI volume control in the track is enabled (no parens around it) that level will be sent every time playback starts unless it's overridden by some volume controller in the track.

[Promidi]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:44 PM, David Baay said:

I verified this is all working as expected for sustain and volume controllers,

I just tried to MIDI chase CC7 and is worked fine here.  

I started playback mid MIDI clip with a CC7 event before the start of the clip.  The CC7 was chased and responded to.  I changed the value of that CC7 event, and every time the correct value of the CC7 event was chased and responded to.

I also tried it with CC64 events and this also chased as expected.

[rfssongs]

Still not functioning as expected on CC 126 - Solo on my MX-88.

[Promidi]

6 hours ago, rfssongs said:

Still not functioning as expected on CC 126 - Solo on my MX-88.

Confirmed here as well. 

In fact, I did a test with MIDImonitor.  Any CCs 98 or above does not chase.   Any Aftertouch events are not chased either.

I think this deserves a note to support.

[rfssongs]

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

Confirmed here as well. 

In fact, I did a test with MIDImonitor.  Any CCs 98 or above does not chase.   Any Aftertouch events are not chased either.

I think this deserves a note to support.

Thank you I appreciate you checking that out.

[Promidi]

2 hours ago, rfssongs said:

Thank you I appreciate you checking that out.

No worries.

I have also logged a support ticket with Cakewalk Support..... with a short screen recording demonstrating this issue.....

[msmcleod]

12 hours ago, Promidi said:

Confirmed here as well. 

In fact, I did a test with MIDImonitor.  Any CCs 98 or above does not chase.   Any Aftertouch events are not chased either.

I think this deserves a note to support.

Strictly speaking only CC up to 97 are true CC's.

CC's 98/99 are 14 bit NRPN's and should be sent as a pair - same with 100/101 ( 14 bit RPN's).  As far as I can tell, they are chased as long as they do come as a pair.
102 - 120 are undefined, but 102 to 119 are chased
121 onwards are reserved for Channel Mode Messages and are not currently chased.

It doesn't look like aftertouch messages are chased. I'm not sure why, although I suspect this was due to historical performance reasons.

[Promidi]

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Strictly speaking only CC up to 97 are true CC's.

CC's 98/99 are 14 bit NRPN's and should be sent as a pair - same with 100/101 ( 14 bit RPN's).  As far as I can tell, they are chased as long as they do come as a pair.
102 - 120 are undefined, but 102 to 119 are chased
121 onwards are reserved for Channel Mode Messages and are not currently chased.

It doesn't look like aftertouch messages are chased. I'm not sure why, although I suspect this was due to historical performance reasons.

I have send a ticket describing CC95 and CC98 and CC99.

Chasing 121 onwards would be handy.....  I do use CC126 to mono a track from time to time (GS/XG standard)

I would not be concerned about CC's 98/99  and CC 100/101 as I use NRPN and RPN events natively as those event rather than the CC pairs.  NRPN and RPN events are chased.

It would be good if aftertouch events are chased as I do use these in many of my projects.  Of course I have a work around (putting the aftertouch  events before any notes that require it), but the aftertouch chase would be handy there as well.

Maybe under Preferences | Project | MIDI > in addition to "Include note Events" ,  add  "Include controller Events (0 to 97)",  "Include non controller Events (97 to 127)", "Include aftertouch (Channel and Key) Events", "Include NRPN and RPN Events (0 to 97)", "Include patch change", etc

[David Baay]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:25 AM, rfssongs said:

Still not functioning as expected on CC 126 - Solo on my MX-88.

I should have asked what was meant by ''solo" in your original post, but since volume and sustain controllers were reportedly not being chased, either, I thought the issue was more general.

[msmcleod]

43 minutes ago, David Baay said:

I should have asked what was meant by ''solo" in your original post, but since volume and sustain controllers were reportedly not being chased, either, I thought the issue was more general.

CC's 121 to 127 are Channel Mode messages:

121 - Reset All Controllers
122 - Local Control On/Off
123 - All Notes Off 
124 - Omni Mode Off
125 - Omni Mode On
126 - Mono Mode On (Poly Mode Off)
127 - Poly Mode On (Mono Mode Off)

For synths that support it, sending CC 126 with a non zero value turns that channel into a mono synth, which is handy for keyboard solos.

 

[rfssongs]

24 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

CC's 121 to 127 are Channel Mode messages:

121 - Reset All Controllers
122 - Local Control On/Off
123 - All Notes Off 
124 - Omni Mode Off
125 - Omni Mode On
126 - Mono Mode On (Poly Mode Off)
127 - Poly Mode On (Mono Mode Off)

For synths that support it, sending CC 126 with a non zero value turns that channel into a mono synth, which is handy for keyboard solos.

 

It's also great on bass parts that you want to sound full and continuous. Pedal & Solo on for the whole song. It's a pain when the search back doesn't work though if you do any editing on the track, But fine if you play it straight through.

[David Baay]

6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

CC 126 with a non zero value turns that channel into a mono synth, which is handy for keyboard solos.

Yes, I'm familiar. I just didn't make the connection between "solo" and "mono".