Midas M32r recording to Cakewalk

[Tom Jacobs]

Hello, 
I have recently upgraded my recording system(live and studio) I used to have a RME FW 800 to a laptop built by a DAW builder running Sonar X2 it ran flawlessly for 12 years, to a PC audio labs built LT and a Midas M32r. 

Here's my trouble, all of my old projects play just fine through outs to the M32r, with the new LT, I can do multi out from the tracks or go through the CW main out in stereo. but anything I track new through the M32r to CW has clocking noises, I do have CW set to 32 bit 48K as well as the M32r,  CW is set to ASIO as that is what the M32r is using, I can get proper tracks recorded to Tracks by Waves (a live recording software for virtual sound checks, not a DAW). The M32r also records to the SD cards just fine, and I can import the into the new CW and they played back properly the first time, today they had the garggled clocking noise. this is confusing.

I'm using the Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card with the M32r and that is USB2 to the DAW.

I am a long time CW since about 1998, and I guess I can out myself now that CW is no longer in development, as a former Sonar beta tester for about 4 years I do have a understanding of the way CW routs audio, but this has me confused, it all looks good, but I am defiantly missing something in the preferences.

Noel Borthwick if you can help me again, that would be great  I've got a studio session next Monday
Thanks Tom

[John Vere]

Are you using the latest version of Cakewalk? That it 100 % supported . 
Your issue sounds like it might be your audio interface. Gear does time out but I’d also be contacting RME and see what they say. 

[Tom Jacobs]

John I am using the latest version of cakewalk by bandlab (the one that is currently for download and they say when I downloaded it it was not supported any more) my new audio interface is the Midas M32rwith the  Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card, the RME interface works just fine with my old set up with Sonar X2, and has nothing to do with my current trouble, I have never used my RME with my new LT as it does not have a FW card. my old recording set up with Sonar X2 and RME FW 800 still work great. 

I pretty sure RME will not help my situation with recording from a Midas M32r ( I'm using the Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card with the M32r to a PC Audiolab laptop, running Cakewalk by bandcamp,) 

Thanks

Tom

[Will.]

7 hours ago, Tom Jacobs said:

, today they had the garggled clocking noise. this is confusing.

 

It sounds like a latency issue. Try setting it to 256 or 512 under preferences. 256 should be just fine though - assuming gargling noise means pops and clicks. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Will.

[Tom Jacobs]

Already did that several times, I usually run at 1024 in my old set up and it worked just fine for 10+years.

no it's not just pops and clicks, those are a clocking issue (I agree), and I haven't found the correct combo of settings in CW preference settings, the midas sends out 48K 32 bit via USB 2 and is an ASIO driver, I do see in the control bar that CW is set to 48/32.

 the garggling is a new one for me, it almost sounds like it's going through a flanger.

Thanks

Tom

48 minutes ago, Will. said:

It sounds like a latency issue. Try setting it to 256 or 512 under preferences. 256 should be just fine though - assuming gargling noise means pops and clicks. 

 

[John Vere]

OK it wasn't clear to me as you mentioned you were using Sonar. And then you also mentioned the RME? I had to read the info a few times and now I see that my comprehension was bad  

OK,, we have a Midas via a Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card. 

We have a new install of Cakewalk by Bandlab.  

Up to date ASIO driver?  Is the driver supplied with the Midas or the KT Card?  and is it the latest available that supports the OS used? 

Have you run Latency Monitor?  https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon  

We will assume the Laptop is capable but you never know what else gets installed after the fact.  Always good to check. 

I have a brand new Motu M4 that results in what you describe as Garbled recordings if I have left Cakewalk running and open the internet or Movie Studio.  My Scarlett does not do this,  so it's defiantly a driver issue with the Motu and this might be your issue as well. 

The playback of already recorded material is fine, but any new recordings are garbled. It goes away if I totally reboot computer.  

 

 

[Xoo]

If you're going into a USB3 port, try a USB2.  My MOTU Ultralite has wow and flutter if I use a USB3.

[Will.]

13 minutes ago, Tom Jacobs said:

 I haven't found the correct combo of settings in CW preference settings, the midas sends out 48K 32 bit via USB 2 and is an ASIO driver, I do see in the control bar that CW is set to 48/32.

 

Okay we'll work with your here. We all have different systems, with different experiences and different fixes. So we'll combine heads. Try running in 44100/24bit and lets check if that fixes what I am think of quick. It might be a long shot though. 

Then make sure that you only have the Asio driver selected in Windows own audio pane in settings. Next make sure that in set to 44/24bit in windows in inside the DAW. Should this work with these setting - you can move back to 48/24bit and bumb one more up to 48/32bits

[Tom Jacobs]

20 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

If you're going into a USB3 port, try a USB2.  My MOTU Ultralite has wow and flutter if I use a USB3.

Good call I'll see if my new LT has USB2 ports

Thanks

Tom

[Tom Jacobs]

18 minutes ago, Will. said:

Okay we'll work with your here. We all have different systems, with different experiences and different fixes. So we'll combine heads. Try running in 44100/24bit and lets check if that fixes what I am think of quick. It might be a long shot though. 

Then make sure that you only have the Asio driver selected in Windows own audio pane in settings. Next make sure that in set to 44/24bit in windows in inside the DAW. Should this work with these setting - you can move back to 48/24bit and bumb one more up to 48/32bits

Thanks

Tom

[Tom Jacobs]

46 minutes ago, John Vere said:

OK it wasn't clear to me as you mentioned you were using Sonar. And then you also mentioned the RME? I had to read the info a few times and now I see that my comprehension was bad  

OK,, we have a Midas via a Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card. 

We have a new install of Cakewalk by Bandlab.  

Up to date ASIO driver?  Is the driver supplied with the Midas or the KT Card?  and is it the latest available that supports the OS used? 

Have you run Latency Monitor?  https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon  

We will assume the Laptop is capable but you never know what else gets installed after the fact.  Always good to check. 

I have a brand new Motu M4 that results in what you describe as Garbled recordings if I have left Cakewalk running and open the internet or Movie Studio.  My Scarlett does not do this,  so it's defiantly a driver issue with the Motu and this might be your issue as well. 

The playback of already recorded material is fine, but any new recordings are garbled. It goes away if I totally reboot computer.  

 

 

ASIO driver is from the  Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card, newest version.

no to the latency monitor, I'll check that out when I get to the studio.

And yes I should assume my new LT DAW is up to spec I had PC audio labs build me  a ROK BOX MC Mobile X DT and upgraded RAM, Video card, processor and all else I could.

thanks

Tom

[MediaGary]

You've certainly piqued my curiosity: 

I have used a Midas M32  (full-size) in my studio since 2016 or perhaps little earlier.  For most of that time it was on the normal X-USB interface/expansion, and I have since migrated to using an X-ADAT expansion driven by RME HDSP 9652's.   When using USB, I was always using USB2-only ports and set to 24-bit recording in Cakewalk; never 32-bit.  [That's for the hardware capture. Track processing at 32-bit is left as-is.]  Most of the time I ran X-USB at a 256-sample buffer.  I now run most of the time at a 64-sample buffer with the RME.

For a while, concert events were recorded via a Behringer X32 Core using an X-Live card with a 'safety' concurrent recording into a Lenovo laptop.  Again, the drill was ASIO, USB2-only and 24-bit.  There has never been a problem with either the outside events or the studio M32. 

It should at least be encouraging that that your setup isn't unusual, and should work just fine.  Checking the LatencyMon statistics is important to establish how well-behaved your system should be.   Also checking for a mis-matched sample rate with the native motherboard sound thingie is good advice.   I generally leave the Windows set for 'No Sounds' .

That's about all the in-the-blind advice I can offer.  Stay encouraged, and let's hope we can quickly get this sorted.

[Tom Jacobs]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:38 AM, MediaGary said:

You've certainly piqued my curiosity: 

I have used a Midas M32  (full-size) in my studio since 2016 or perhaps little earlier.  For most of that time it was on the normal X-USB interface/expansion, and I have since migrated to using an X-ADAT expansion driven by RME HDSP 9652's.   When using USB, I was always using USB2-only ports and set to 24-bit recording in Cakewalk; never 32-bit.  [That's for the hardware capture. Track processing at 32-bit is left as-is.]  Most of the time I ran X-USB at a 256-sample buffer.  I now run most of the time at a 64-sample buffer with the RME.

For a while, concert events were recorded via a Behringer X32 Core using an X-Live card with a 'safety' concurrent recording into a Lenovo laptop.  Again, the drill was ASIO, USB2-only and 24-bit.  There has never been a problem with either the outside events or the studio M32. 

It should at least be encouraging that that your setup isn't unusual, and should work just fine.  Checking the LatencyMon statistics is important to establish how well-behaved your system should be.   Also checking for a mis-matched sample rate with the native motherboard sound thingie is good advice.   I generally leave the Windows set for 'No Sounds' .

That's about all the in-the-blind advice I can offer.  Stay encouraged, and let's hope we can quickly get this sorted.

Thanks, I have an "it all looks good on paper" set up between all 3 devices, but I am missing something some where.
I have several more things to try.

I'm not finding much info about the  Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card with the Midas M32r, 

I will check if I turned off no sound, good call, it's something to try.

Thanks


I hav

[Jeff Bowman]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:00 PM, Tom Jacobs said:

I'm not finding much info about the  Klark Teknik DN32-LIVE card with the Midas M32r, 

I have one in my X32 rack and it works fine.

What have you got the audio sync on the M32 set to? It should be set to card if you're connecting through the DN32-LIVE.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Jeff Bowman

[Tom Jacobs]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:18 AM, Jeff Bowman said:

I have one in my X32 rack and it works fine.

What have you got the audio sync on the M32 set to? It should be set to card if you're connecting through the DN32-LIVE.

Yes set to card.

after spend some time on this. thie issue is pointing at my PC audio Labs DAW I think it's too fast and it's widows 11, none of the drivers for my cards (klark teknik dn32. SSLbig 6 and UAD Apollo) are up to date and work with my windows 10 DAWS.

I have a appointment scheduled wit PC Audio Labs to figure this out.

will post the results to help others

Thanks all for the advice, I'm close to figuring this out

TTom

 

 

[Kenneth Watson]

While not the exact same issue, I am currently using Cakewalk with our M32 Live USB to control our broadcast mix and after a ton of troubleshooting to even get the PC to recognize the mixer interface, it all came down to the cable.  While it was the proper USB style, it wasn't pinned for data transfer.  Since replacing the cable, I have had no issues.  

[Michael Vogel]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:38 AM, Tom Jacobs said:

Already did that several times, I usually run at 1024 in my old set up and it worked just fine for 10+years.

no it's not just pops and clicks, those are a clocking issue (I agree), and I haven't found the correct combo of settings in CW preference settings, the midas sends out 48K 32 bit via USB 2 and is an ASIO driver, I do see in the control bar that CW is set to 48/32.

 the garggling is a new one for me, it almost sounds like it's going through a flanger.

Thanks

Tom

 

Try setting 48k 24bit not 32 bit.

32 bit relates to internal plugin processing not audio processing.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Michael Vogel (MUDGEL)

[Jeff Bowman]

Might be worth trying setting the desk to 44.1, rebooting the desk then setting it to 48k and rebooting again then checking the settings in the USB driver control panel to make sure thats holding the 48k setting.

[Tom Jacobs]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:07 PM, Kenneth Watson said:

While not the exact same issue, I am currently using Cakewalk with our M32 Live USB to control our broadcast mix and after a ton of troubleshooting to even get the PC to recognize the mixer interface, it all came down to the cable.  While it was the proper USB style, it wasn't pinned for data transfer.  Since replacing the cable, I have had no issues.  

Cables were the fist thing I checked

 

 

[Tom Jacobs]

I've been in contact with the DAW builder for the past couple of month's. and we're both stumped,
we are on to PS tests to see if the PS is causing interference with my A/D-D/A  I/O's, I have made my system work with old DAW's but not my new PC audio labs Pock Box that I went overboard with upgrading.

now I have an over powered LT that is waiting to catch up

Tom