Random transients (pops/clicks) in the same location

[Terry Kelley]

I noticed that I sometimes get a transient pop/click noise spike where an audio clip starts. If I left trim it up to the start of the wave I sometimes get a click pop there.

But not always.

I know a non-zero crossing discontinuity is the likely cause but I can start and play through the pop and sometimes it's there - sometimes it's not. It might do it twice in a row or not for ten times. I can mix it down and sometimes it's there - sometimes it's not. I've looked closely and frankly I don't see a discontinuity or spike at that location but maybe their is something else at play. I've disabled effects and PDC but I can't say it helps. At the same time but left thumb goes numb hitting the space bar over and over. 

Because ....?

I work around it by keeping the volume down through the clip start (fair enough.) But I would expect a clip that starts at zero to not pop. Asking for a friend! ;)

[Max Arwood]

Starts and ends of clips need to be faded in or out. Even if the clip starts at zero crossing it can still pop.  You shouldn’t turn off PDC. 

[Terry Kelley]

Thanks Max. I turned off PDC and FX only to see if it had any influence. Also, my questions is around the randomness of the glitch. It appears in the same location but is not consistent.

More of a curiosity at this point. Maybe it doesn't always add in the clip at the exact same sample (maybe a couple late)?

Edited March 2, 2022 by Terry Kelley

[Will.]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:04 PM, Terry Kelley said:

 

? Weird! Double message? ?

Edited March 3, 2022 by Will_Kaydo
Double message

[Will.]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:04 PM, Terry Kelley said:

Thanks Max. I turned off PDC and FX only to see if it had any influence. Also, my questions is around the randomness of the glitch. It appears in the same location but is not consistent.

More of a curiosity at this point. Maybe it doesn't always add in the clip at the exact same sample (maybe a couple late)?

This depends on if its an audio or midi file you're using.

It also sounds more like rogue peaks. So you might want to tame those peaks and dynamics. It might need a cut in eq instead of a boost in the frequency range. You can also try to split the clip and do crossfades by ticks value with the region zoomed in until you see the tick grid lines (I like to work in value of 2 ticks - more surgical with my workflow.) 

If its audio and between phrases, you can always add in silence in between. It can be clipping inside the plugin. Its hard to say from the information you gave on top. It can be a lot of things - even just a spike from your CPU. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Will_Kaydo

[Terry Kelley]

Hi Will, it's audio.

I would expect it to be consistent. I've always used the 'muted until needed' method but I am curious why it isn't consistent. If there is no apparent glitch why does it randomly act like there is one. And since "muted until needed" works (or scares it so much it refuses to do it), the issue is at that start of the clip. And not all clips do it. Most don't but here comes that one that wants to be a jerk.

When I happened it's both in CbB playback AND mixdowns. It's something about the way Cakewalk starts the clip.

I'll just assume it's another ghost in the machine and move on. Lol.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Terry Kelley

[Max Arwood]

I still think it is number one from the enclosed list.

 

What exactly are you doing in Cakewalk? Looping stuff, recording, softsynths, midi?

How many tracks and plugins? (Does bypassing all effects help any?-you said this did not help)  FYI muting clips does not reduce CPU it only silences them. Archiving will disengage the track and reduce CPU and hard disk use. This is a good technique when there are extra tracks that you don't need for the moment. Freezing tracks is another option to reduce CPU and lighten the load of a project.

What is your computer set up CPU, memory etc.?

What sound card and driver are you using?

When zooming in, did you see the click in the audio waveform display?

There are many things that cause pops and clicks.

 

Here are just a few->

1) You MUST fade in and out all audio clips. The default amount can be set in preferences.  If you didn't get a pop on an unfaded audio clip, you were just lucky. The volume of the click is usually track volume related. And yes, it can be slightly random depending on how the computer spools the clip.

Try this - Save the song as song02, so we will be experimenting on a copy and not the real track. 

In the track view you could do  this -> Click on the number of any track - like #1 then CTRL-A - all tracks should be selected.

Then click "clips" in the menu above the tracks that begins with -  View   Options   Tracks   "Clips"   MIDI   Region FX 

Choose the 5th bar menu item "Fade Clips". Be sure the radio button Fade is selected and fade in and out is set to 10 or more. 15 might be a good experimental number. Fade in and out set to Linear and replace existing curves is checked. Click OK. 

Play the song several times to see if the clicks still exist. If they are gone do number 10,14 and 15, otherwise continue.

 

2) Pops in actual recordings - bad wire/connections. Static electricity or other electrical interferences. Audio glitches in samples and loops. CPU glitches.

Zoom in like Will said, look for it. Zoom in really close. It could look like a spike, but can also look like a small scribbly area. Edit this area out.

3) Latency set too low. This depends on the sound card and computer CPU. Many people try to set this too low. I know you can only set it so high depending on the type of recording/playback you are doing. Try a higher number - you could try 2 notches up from your current settings.

4) Not using a good driver in with your sound card - Cakewalk likes ASIO drivers (must be native [came with the card] not ASIO4all.)

5) Check audio and Hard disc meters - Is one is these high?

6) Anti-Virus Off - my computer barely runs projects with medium heavy plugin loads. I have to turn it off. Watch out, it will turn itself back on.

7) Some people have problems with their network cards.  Disconnect from the internet. (I know some plugins like to phone home.)

? Turn off sound cards built into the mother board.

9) USB controllers/drivers can cause timing problems with DAWs

10) Preferences - Audio - Playback and recording - Fade on start and fade on stop milliseconds. Mine is set to 8

11) Preferences - sync and caching - Synchronization - set to trigger and freewheel, unless you have a separate world clock. 

12)  Preferences - sync and caching - file system you will have to experiment with these - my read and write caching are both turned on. Playback=2048 Record=512

13)  Preferences - customization - editing - clips - Auto crossfade comps - mine is set to 14

14)  Click the Track view Options menu and choose Auto Crossfade.

Also, there is an off/on crossfade  button on the same row as the  View   Options   Tracks   "Clips"   MIDI   Region FX  - on the far right  side of the screen contains crossfade off and on and ripple edit button.  The crossfade button should be on.  It will be Orange when it is on.

Also look at https://bandlab.github.io/cakewalk/docs/Cakewalk Reference Guide.pdf  page 168 more info on P543. You could also search the document and look at all 20 occurrences of auto crossfade.

 

 

 

[Will.]

6 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

Hi Will, it's audio.

I would expect it to be consistent. I've always used the 'muted until needed' method but I am curious why it isn't consistent. If there is no apparent glitch why does it randomly act like there is one. 

There's a reason why its called "rogue peaks." 

That is why I say, it can be anything. If it's an audio clip and happens at the beginning, then someone abruptly trimmed/cropped it down to where there was information on. If it happens exactly when the clip starts where there's nothing - even when it seems there might not be something  (there's always something/noise in an audio clip) a fade in will definitely fix it. If it's randomly as you say, two frequencies might be fighting with each other for space. The ear then hear these buildup at random times withing the mix. Buildups dont occur only in the low end area, but throughout the mix and might be masking the actual culprit. 

Try giving the audio clip in discussion a slower attack from the clips its competing against - even when you have a fade in on. It can be a ping pong delay whose feedback is too long and loud that clashes/feeds into a certain track. It can be another track that's not aligning up with the loop when its enabled. It might be how it was recorded, so when ever you feed it through some time processing effects it shows its face at "random." I something spend 30mins searching for it going through each track. Trying to fix such problem with SOLO or MUTE wont give you what you're looking for. You have to locate it while the track play. 

You said it yourself, that it happens on the same place, but at random times.