PavlovsCat Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) I've written hundreds of original songs, but I'm getting practice playing and singing again 21 years after I stopped playing due to tendonitis by performing and recording cover songs -- I started playing again almost one year ago . This the chorus of me playing my favorite Foo Fighters song, "These Days." I've only completed around half the song and plan to finish up this coming weekend. But I thought, instead of sharing the finished version right off the bat, because people are so knowledgeable here and eager to offer constructive criticism -- I say that being very appreciative, when I posted other songs, people have been really helpful -- I thought I'd ask for advice BEFORE I finished recording the song. FTR, I am watching instructional videos, it's just a bit overwhelming. So I thought it would be most useful to share this before I completed recording the song. FTR, I realize the guitar part is super sloppy and I need to re-record it. I have never really understood how to deal with the noise in a vocal track in between singing parts and a musician friend told me to use a compressor, so I put a compressor on it, but I'm using presets (I'lll try to watch a video on it this weekend). I know very little about production or mixing. I was a semi-professional drummer for two decades whose first instrument is piano. second instrument is organ and third is drums (I took some guitar lessons but with my tendonitis and the fact that I never got very good at guitar, I'm only using sample libraries of guitars on my recordings). So, again, I thought I'd share this work in progress excerpt of the chorus to solicit your constructive criticism and advice on effects to use and mixing. I own a bunch of Izotope pro effects I don't know how to use very well! I hoped the AI would be a lot more helpful than it turned out to be. I have drums, piano, three electric guitars, two acoustic guitars, electric bass guitar, organ, strings -- all KONTAKT sample libraries -- and of course vocals. In addition to compression on the vocal I used Toontrack's ezMix. I can use advice on panning the various instruments and vocals. I've always been told to keep bass in the center. I'm not really sure about anything else in this mix. I'll share my progress as I make adjustments based on input here and from friends of mine all the way up to the complete version of the song, which I hope to finish up this or next weekend if I have the time. I was a good drummer A LONG TIME ago. So I realize that my performances won't impress anyone, and my voice was never good for anything beyond background vocals, so I realize there's nothing stunning about my performances. I'm just enjoying playing again and trying to get better. Edited February 16, 2022 by PavlovsCat Grammatical edits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) there's a lot to learn, but we all learn a little at a time....i'll try to offer some ideas based on your post.... 1. sample librairies are great and you have them 2. as far as re-recording the guitar part there are numerous ways to do that.... a. use an audio interface with a microphone and record it live, effects can be added later b. plug it directly into the audio interface and record it, or, plug it directly into the audio interface and launch the Cakewalk TH3 guitar VST and you can pick an amp, cabinet and various effects contained in the VST (you can always launch the TH3 after recording a clean take directly and spice it up that way) c. after recording the guitar part you can create an auxillary track of it which is an exact duplicate of it and play around with panning, EQ, effects, balance, volume, etcetera 3. the noise in the vocal track between the singing i always eliminate by automating the volume down to zero between the vox lines....compression is a totally different process that effects the audio quality 4. panning can be controlled by the Pan knob in the Console View module of the track, it can also be automated in the Clip Box so, there is a lot to learn but once you start doing it the learning curve is realtively fast, i can't reccommend Mike Enjo's You Tube tutorials enough at #creativesauce ....he covers all the above clearly...hope this helps ???? Edited February 16, 2022 by Larry T. improvement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Walsh Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) Not a think wrong with your voice, it's very rock' and roll. Great start here. I'm a big fan of your covers, you're always so faithful to the spirit of the original song. Can't wait till this one is finished! Larry's advice is good on dealing with noise between the blobs on vocal tracks. Another route is to use a gate, which is a device that senses the dB output level of your track and when it drops below a certain level it essentially mutes the output. You can set that level to any value you like. Play your song and fiddle with the threshold value till it does what you want - silence the stuff you don't want and plays the stuff you do. Gates are fun for other types of effects too, but that's for another day! I personally just manually split and crop clips till they only have the parts I want in them. I zoom in very tight to see exactly where the audio I want starts and I trim the clip right up to that point. It's tedious, and so is going through vocal parts and manually adjusting volume automation to get nice levels, but the results are worth the effort. Particularly if you're like me and you record in a room with your dog snoring and the AC running and the TV blaring in the next room! One thing I've recently invested in that has made a big difference in the quality of my vocal recordings is a mic shield, which is a bit of acoustic foam-coated steel that mounts on the mic stand and blocks room reflections and noise from getting into your mic. Saw one at GC and picked it up for a lark and man, what a difference! Turns out the less noise you have in your vocal parts, the less distortion compression imparts to the track and the nicer the sound. If you're going for warmth and clarity, it's great. Nowhere near as good as a real studio room but no way I'll ever have something like that. Some dudz on the interwebs have declared them snake-oil, but I think they're wrong. YMMV! Edited February 16, 2022 by Kevin Walsh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kevin Walsh said: One thing I've recently invested in that has made a big difference in the quality of my vocal recordings is a mic shield, which is a bit of acoustic foam-coated steel that mounts on the mic stand and blocks room reflections and noise from getting into your mic. Saw one at GC and picked it up for a lark and man, what a difference! Turns out the less noise you have in your vocal parts, the less distortion compression imparts to the track and the nicer the sound. If you're going for warmth and clarity, it's great. Nowhere near as good as a real studio room but no way I'll ever have something like that. Some dudz on the interwebs have declared them snake-oil, but I think they're wrong. YMMV! i agree completely with Kevin about the mic shield (aka pop filter, Amazon has them too)....huge improvement in my vox so, imho, it's really worth the money....???? EDIT: please see NEXT POST from Kevin who corrects my incorrect understanding of the mic shield (Thanks again Kevin....cheers!!!!) Edited February 16, 2022 by Larry T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Walsh Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Larry, sorry, I'm referring to a mic shield. Here's a picture of my setup. As you can see, I also use a pop filter. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Kevin Walsh said: Larry, sorry, I'm referring to a mic shield. Here's a picture of my setup. As you can see, I also use a pop filter. Thanks Kevin....i was not aware of the distinction....i may get one of those puppy's too ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) Man, you guys are all so incredibly helpful and kind. Thanks so much to everyone who posted a comment. I read them all and will be implementing the advice. Regarding a pop filter, I own one, but it would ruin my desk to mount it, so I don't use it. I own some pro mics, but I haven't used them in around 20 years and haven't been able to find them, so I'm using my computer's USB podcasting mic for my vocals. I'm sure any of my old mics would be an upgrade. I will look on Amazon for a pop filter that won't ruin my desk. I sang the chorus around two feet from the mic, so I don't think there was any popping there. But there was during the verse. I own a mic shield but haven't used it yet. I will use it in the future. Promise! Anyhow, you guys are encouraging this old rocker and I greatly appreciate it. I was never a good singer, so I am always embarrassed to sing on this stuff, but after sharing several songs with my voice with friends and here, I'm starting to get over the embarrassment. Edited February 16, 2022 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 26 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said: Man, you guys are all so incredibly helpful and kind. Thanks so much to everyone who posted a comment. I read them all and will be implementing the advice. Regarding a pop filter, I own one, but it would ruin my desk to mount it, so I don't use it. I own some pro mics, but I haven't used them in around 20 years and haven't been able to find them, so I'm using my computer's USB podcasting mic for my vocals. I'm sure any of my old mics would be an upgrade. I will look on Amazon for a pop filter that won't ruin my desk. I sang the chorus around two feet from the mic, so I don't think there was any popping there. But there was during the verse. I own a mic shield but haven't used it yet. I will use it in the future. Promise! Anyhow, you guys are encouraging this old rocker and I greatly appreciate it. I was never a good singer, so I am always embarrassed to sing on this stuff, but after sharing several songs with my voice with friends and here, I'm starting to get over the embarrassment. your voice is fine and will get better the more singing you do....just last month i decided to watch some You Tube videos on how to sing and the results in my voice have been incredible....for sure, i'm no paul mccartney, mick jagger, roger daltry nor sting....but as one of the voice teachers, Ken Tamplin, says "The only difference between someone who sings and someone who doesn't is the singer has the guts to do it!!" lol!!!! and, funnily enough, i now tend to agree with him....here are three links to who i consider to be the best vocal coaches on You Tube: 1. Ramsey Voice Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQfaqE8UHHM&list=PLx3ss4AKhMVdbE6vzog_UER0KsELqZJc6&index=28 2. Dr. Dan's Voice Essentials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhvEDm7luno&list=PLx3ss4AKhMVdbE6vzog_UER0KsELqZJc6&index=13 3. Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSSoZzD7og&list=PLx3ss4AKhMVdbE6vzog_UER0KsELqZJc6&index=4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack c. Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 sounds great.jack c. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sprouse Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Your covers are awesome. It only shared an excerpt for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, David Sprouse said: Your covers are awesome. It only shared an excerpt for some reason. Thanks so much. Everyone here is so kind -- and I've only recently had the nerve to share anything I've recorded recently. It's only a chorus, and I actually screwed up the guitar part near the end, because I'm still working on the song. My tendonitis is pretty bad, consequently, when I was recording the drums I found myself in pain and had to stop. Unfortunately, I'm not able to play through every song in its entirety without having pain that can screw up my timing. So, I basically played around half of the song -- I plan to complete it this weekend -- and played this chorus to my son who really liked it, because, while Foo Fighters songs are super easy to play -- and I love them, especially this song -- I didn't know how my voice would sound, so I wanted to see what my son thought, because he's 16 (17 tomorrow) and pretty critical and, like me, he has a big sense of humor, and usually hears my voice and says, "Stick to the drums." But when I played this for him, he said he was genuinely surprised, which he only said once before, when I showed him my original song I shared in this forum "Every Day," so I thought to myself, if he thinks my voice sounds good, it must not be embarrassing, so I thought I'd share the little clip to get advice and input. I'm always really blown away but how nice everyone is here. I mean, I've been managing digital marketing, including social media, since the 90s, and as we've all noticed, kindness isn't exactly overflowing online. But there's a lot of it in this forum. That's why I enjoy it so much. Possibly also because they don't permit people to get into politics and religion, which sadly, most of society is unable to talk about in a civil manner. Beyond the encouragement I so greatly appreciate, the comments here are really are encouraging on a larger scale. Thanks to every person who took the time to comment. The only downside is it means I'm going to keep making music and sharing! Sorry. Believe me, when I listen to some of the music other people are posting here, part of me wants to pull down anything I've shared out of embarrassment. I'm trying to make sure I click on peoples' names and look for their music too and return the favor. While I obviously can't provide any insights on mixing beyond my personal tastes and very simple observations, I do want to encourage others and enjoy letting them know when they've done a good job. Edited February 16, 2022 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry T. Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 hi again....watch this Guitar Comp video when you redo the guitar, once you know how to record using the comp feature you will be amazed: https://youtu.be/f3M_XcHFl5Y 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajan Blue Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Hi - this is sounding good - excellent advice from Larry and Kevin - personally i draw volume envelopes on the stuff I don't want - i prefer that to using a gate. I always use a mic shield and pop filter Cant wait to hear the finished version Nigel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 I suppose I should create a new thread for the finished song. I'll do that now. Of course, I still invite everyone's constructive criticism for improving the mix and performances. Thanks again to everyone for your feedback and encouragement. I really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark skinner Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) I thought this was a Very solid start on a good song . The drums were Very Nice and you've got a head start on most of us in that department , even if you had to use a virtual kit at some point , being a Real drummer you would still be ahead. Hopefully you can locate your mics , I thought your vocals were Real Nice but would be a lot better if captured differently. Can't wait to hear more of this . Enjoyed it mark Edited February 19, 2022 by mark skinner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 minute ago, mark skinner said: I thought this was a Very solid start on a good song . The drums were Very Nice and you've got a head start on most of us in that department , even if you had to use a virtual kit at some point , being a Real drummer you would still be ahead. As far as your mix , I thought the guitars could be widened a little , I believe there's plenty of room for that. Hopefully you can locate your mics , I thought your vocals were Real Nice but would be a lot better if captured differently. Can't wait to hear more of this . Enjoyed it .. mark Thanks. Actually all of the instruments are sample libraries played via midi controllers. I have midi keyboards, midi drum pads, a Roland V-Drum kit. I basically started working with midi and sample libraries years ago because of my tendinitis, playing my acoustic kits really causes a lot of problems --- which reminds me that I need to at least sell one of the two acoustic kits! I just started a new thread with the completed song. I wasn't sure if I should put it here or a new thread. I figured it was too much to expect people to sift through a bunch of posts to find the song, so I created a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) You are off to a very good start. Here’s my input for what it’s worth For vocals I always split into short clips and slip edit the silent part out. Then it’s easy to work with these in Melodyne. The bass sounds very muddy. If you haven’t tried it yet , try Ample P bass lite. It sits in a mix with out any processing for me. For other things takes to long to explain in detail but I made a whole series of tutorials that covers all that. They take a song from start to finish in cakewalk that if you’re a newbie it’s was made just for you. It starts with 201 and there are 10 in a row. just pay attention at the end for link to next video. It’s titled original song but it can apply to cover songs as well. Only difference is I usually start cover songs with drums or a midi file if I can find the song https://youtu.be/oOJgZG0UhFM Edited February 19, 2022 by John Vere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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