Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 16 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: Those who think most professionals are using Mac: I get calls on a daily basis from professional composers... who simply can't get the speed/configuration (from Apple) they need to effectively work. If you watch TV/Movies... a custom PC was used to create the music on almost all of them. Composer Tim Wynn was a long time Cakewalk user (has since switched to Cubase). Tim is now scoring feature films for the likes of Marvel. I can say with 100% certainty that he's not using a Mac. Nor is his colleague Ernie Lee... as we just shipped his new machine I do think the Apple Mini is a slick little machine. It's pretty cool for what it is (small form-factor simple machine). Come on. You know that for very ten examples you share, someone can put up another 20 that use logic or Macs. And if you put up another 20, there can be another 40 that are on Apple. This really does nothing but serve as a commercial. But you must have known that before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, Paul_in_wales said: How about just bringing a touch of objective common sense to it? A smaller percentage of a large number is still a significant number in absolute terms - making it easy to cite individual examples without proving anything one way or the other. I'd also venture that a man that builds and ships PCs is likely to have his experience skewed towards the group of professionals that are using PCs. You are far more diplomatic and eloquent than I am. Well stated. Now, what are we discussing in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_in_wales Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 btw, I wasn't saying I know that macs have the "most" professionals using them over PCs - just that anecdotal evidence isn't proof as it's statistically insignificant weighed again the whole. I like mac, it works great for me - but I won't lose any sleep if PCs are "better" or more professionals use them. It'd be interesting to see the results of a well-constructed survey showing which system professionals are using - can anybody point to one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Paul_in_wales said: btw, I wasn't saying I know that macs have the "most" professionals using them over PCs - just that anecdotal evidence isn't proof as it's statistically insignificant weighed again the whole. I like mac, it works great for me - but I won't lose any sleep if PCs are "better" or more professionals use them. It'd be interesting to see the results of a well-constructed survey showing which system professionals are using - can anybody point to one? I think your point came across clearly. That would be interesting, but I agree with you. Really who cares? using the same pc or Mac that someone else does, isn't gonna give you their talent. As Ive stared many times, these are just tools. Use whatever makes you creative and you can afford. What I am seeing more clearly now, are all the hidden agendas that drive these sort of threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) If we can get past all the anti-fanboy or whatever agendas, we can hopefully have a meaningful, and productive discussion on the merits of one tool, vs another. That would be healthy and fun, I think. There is a point about cost of ownership that I’ve sort of made, but it’s been overlooked among the noise. The resale value of a Mac is something that one should factor in when considering the cost. For example. I bought my first 16inch MacBook Pro in 2018. With student discounts (I’m a student of life and Apple didn’t verify) I ended up paying around 1800$ for it. Got to use it for 2 years (and deal with the horrible throttling). I then sold my 16 inch MacBook Pro right back to Apple. They gave me 1200$ for it. I probably could have gotten more selling it myself, but Apple makes it very convenient. They send you box and pre paid labels. All you do is stick it in the box, and send it off. So in reality, I paid $600 for a top of the line laptop. That's not bad, no matter how you wanna look at it! At the time, there wasn’t a 16inch M1 option, so I tried the M1 air, M1 MacBook pro14, and M1 mini. Apple lets you try em for 14 days and makes the returns very ez. With Time Machine, it was really ez to switch from computer to computer. All my software and settings..everything was set up as with the old one, in around 30 minutes . No issues or goblins. I didn’t like the small screen, so I opted for the Mac mini, and hooked it up to my 55 inch tv. Worked great. I paid less that 700$ for it. I used the same money Apple gave me for my 2018 MacBook Pro to pay for it. Then, the new 16in M1 MacBook Pro came out. So I sold my M1 mini right back to Apple. They gave me $570 for it, and I turned around and bought the 16 M1 MacBook Pro. So all in all, my initial investment has remained. Just pay a small upgrade fee for the latest and greatest. Sort of like with some of the music software we use. That’s something to really consider when assessing the cost of ownership. And something PC windows computers dont offer. With PC, well we all know , you’d be lucky to get a few hundred bucks for what was the top of the line just a few years ago. Edited January 30, 2022 by Hugh Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Hugh Mann said: Come on. You know that for very ten examples you share, someone can put up another 20 that use logic or Macs. And if you put up another 20, there can be another 40 that are on Apple. This really does nothing but serve as a commercial. But you must have known that before posting. The Mac fanboys are trying to move the goalposts now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_in_wales Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, bdickens said: The Mac fanboys are trying to move the goalposts now. care to explain? Jim said "Those who think most professionals are using Mac:" and then provided a few bits of anecdotal evidence. You treated that like it was an unassailable truth that had come down from on high. Which parts of this are you struggling with - that anecdotal evidence isn't proof, or that "most" is not the same as "many"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, bdickens said: The Mac fanboys are trying to move the goalposts now. That would be fanboy, not fanboys. Since you quoted me. Singular. Sorry to correct you again. ? Do you even own a Mac? Doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know that x86 software works fine via Rosetta. Are you just a cute little troll.? ? You are obviously not being serious or adding anything to the discussion. Other than put downs and ill vibes. But that's fine, Im in a feeding mood today. ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_in_wales Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 How about this: pro tools expert did a poll with 4,000 responders last year. out of those that responded, 70% (2,800) were using mac and 30% (1,200) windows. Given macs are traditionally more expensive than windows computers like-for-like and a lot of hobbyists have windows computers for other reasons, especially gaming, isn't it a reasonable expectation that a mac user will be more likely than a windows user to be using it professionally? https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/not-all-creatives-use-macs It's far from perfect - but at least it's data of a reasonable size and spread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 51 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said: That would be fanboy, not fanboys. Since you quoted me. Singular. Sorry to correct you again. ? Do you even own a Mac? Doesn't seem like it, since you didn't know that x86 software works fine via Rosetta. Are you just a cute little troll.? ? You are obviously not being serious or adding anything to the discussion. Other than put downs and ill vibes. But that's fine, Im in a feeding mood today. ?? Yeah. I'm a cute little troll. Over half my posts are Mac fanboy proselytizing and I've never once responded to someone's request for help with Cakewalk. Oh, wait.... https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/profile/7891-hugh-mann/content/ No, I don't own a Mac and I'm not going to either. I despise the way they do business. I'm not such a great fan of Microsoft either, just to be fair, but they don't have a reputation for breaking software. Yeah, yeah "Rosetta" and all. Whatever. PCs don't need something like that.... You don't see developers making such a big deal about now being compatible with the latest Windows update or Intel core i9. I wonder why that is. Google I also don't like very much either, but at least they don't throttle my phone when I update Android. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Hey, who likes Gibson better than Fender? I'm just curious. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 32 minutes ago, Bapu said: Hey, who likes Gibson better than Fender? I'm just curious. Ibanez ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 hour ago, bdickens said: Yeah. I'm a cute little troll. Live your truth. No judgments. Live your truth. ? Just out of curiosity, are there any companies you do like? Honestly, I totally get that all of these companies have something that can be strongly disliked about them. Throw in Amazon to the pile. Any number of companies. Or maybe even all of them! It's one of those things that we have collectively just accepted as a part of biz. What's the solution? Boycott everything? Pass laws and regulations? Stifle innovation? Where does it end? Live in a hut on an island? IDK. But I do get that these companies practice some shady isht. It's a dilemma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bapu said: Hey, who likes Gibson better than Fender? I'm just curious. I like turtles. But seriously....Obviously Fender is better. Geddy Lee plays one, so that means all professionals do. And even though I've never owned, or even played a Gibson. I just don't like the way they write their "G". Seems kind of fruity and communist to me. Now, if Gibson had a deal where if you buy a new one for $1800, they will buy it back for $1200 2 years later, I might consider it. ? Edited January 30, 2022 by Hugh Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said: 2 hours ago, bdickens said: Yeah. I'm a cute little troll. Over half my posts are Mac fanboy proselytizing and I've never once responded to someone's request for help with Cakewalk. Oh, wait.... https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/profile/7891-hugh-mann/content/ Live your truth. No judgments. Live your truth. ? Says the man who hasn't once actually tried to help someone... Tell me something, were you born this much of an ***** or did you have to practice? Edited January 30, 2022 by bdickens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, bdickens said: Says the man who hasn't once actually tried to help someone... Tell me something, were you born this much of an ***** or did you have to practice? It was years and years of practice. Who are you to judge what help is anyway? Maybe I'm helping some poor up and coming producer? You just never know. If you don't like what I have to say. put me on ignore. I know trolls feed on attention. That's why im giving you some. I like my trolls nice and fat. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 ??♂️ a Kane and Able situation - the Apple has been bitten.??♂️ Can we get some sunshine through these Windows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 19 hours ago, Hugh Mann said: Come on. You know that for very ten examples you share, someone can put up another 20 that use logic or Macs. And if you put up another 20, there can be another 40 that are on Apple. This really does nothing but serve as a commercial. But you must have known that before posting. The fact of the matter is that composers running large scoring templates are forced to custom machine/s to get the speed/configuration necessary (to effectively work). I deal with these folks every day. If you are watching a popular TV show or Film, a custom PC was most likely used by the composer (either as main machine or VE Pro "Slave"). I used Tim Wynn as an example... because long-time forum members will remember him. Tim was an active forum member. Tim climbed the composing ranks over the past several decades... and is now scoring feature films. Show me 20 examples of top-tier professional composers who are NOT using any custom PC. The short answer is... you can't. The top composers in LA meet once a month. Many of them actually live in the same neighborhood (strange but true). All are running custom machine/s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 15 hours ago, Bapu said: Hey, who likes Gibson better than Fender? I'm just curious. Neither... ? PRS all day long 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Mann Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: The fact of the matter is that composers running large scoring templates are forced to custom machine/s to get the speed/configuration necessary (to effectively work). I deal with these folks every day. If you are watching a popular TV show or Film, a custom PC was most likely used by the composer (either as main machine or VE Pro "Slave"). I used Tim Wynn as an example... because long-time forum members will remember him. Tim was an active forum member. Tim climbed the composing ranks over the past several decades... and is now scoring feature films. Show me 20 examples of top-tier professional composers who are NOT using any custom PC. The short answer is... you can't. The top composers in LA meet once a month. Many of them actually live in the same neighborhood (strange but true). All are running custom machine/s... I live in California. 2 hours south of LA. I’m familiar with the scene. Before that, I lived in Miami and was part of that scene. I’d name drop, but it’s considered pretty pretentious and desperate. It will get you a lot of eye rolls. Only amateurs desperate to prove they are legit name drop around here, lol. I’ll leave that to you. Maybe a good sales tactic that works for you. Anyway, It’s macs that I see. It’s logic. Everyone I know is using logic. It’s the standard like pro tools. Or final cut for film. But really, who cares if they use Mac or Pc? Is anyone arguing that they are not another set of tools? Macs are great in a lot of situations for many of the reasons I’ve posted. But windows can be fine too. They get the job done, not as sleek and sexy, but that’s fine. Ugly ducklings need love too,. That’s why I feed trolls. We all need love, lol. you are pointing out a very tiny subset of pros that still use pc. That’s interesting. But no matter how you try to spin it, it’s still a tiny subset. Sorry, but you don’t define what pro is. When you make these assertions, like you are the final authority, well…you are gonna get push back from those of us that know better. But It’s good to know that there are some situations where a pc might be more ideal. Cool. It’s really you who is making this a Mac vs pc thing. But then that’s your biz. You sell custom pc. You are not exactly unbiased. That would be fine, but you go too far with it. Like claiming an 8gb ram M1 is only good for a paperweight. That’s bs and really disingenuous, considering you are selling custom pc. I thing outright lies like that hurt the community. Someone that buys into your expert shtick may really think those macs are nothing more than a paperweight. And they’d miss out on a great machine. Or you try to make people feel that only your computers and knowledge are pro enough. Talk about unsavory biz models..,I’m not a fan of the way you put down one tool, even lie about it (paperweight) to elevate the tools you sell. And the custom pc thing really kind of sucks. Years ago, I was at a studio and we ordered a custom pc. Forget the name. Something like cheetah or that was their logo. Whatever. I remember needing to wait for the guy to fly down to California in order to fix it when we had issues. Our studio was shut down till he could get to us. We decided to go Mac after that. But aside from that, I didn’t personally get on the Mac bandwagon till 2018. Before that l stubbornly stuck to windows, they were better at the time. I’m terms of raw power at least. But now everything is powerful. So the sleek package and other niceties are more appreciated. . If pc becomes better in the future, I may go there again. It’s just a tool. And let’s see where things stand in a a year. Apple isn’t sitting in its laurels. Edited January 31, 2022 by Hugh Mann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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