Intel's 12th-generation Core i9 Processor ​ ​Faster Than Apple Silicon M1 Max

[Fleer]

I just needed a laptop to be:

effective

efficient

heatless 

noiseless

weightless 

[Reid Rosefelt]

These discussions will go on forever. 

The reality is that years ago when I went into a New York design studio, it was 100% Macs.  Everybody I knew who wasn't using Avid for film editing ran Final Cut on Macs.  And musicians used Macs.  I'm not knowledgable about special effects and gaming, but I expect it was similar. 

The PC market owned the office market.  Apple competed by going aggressively for the creatives.  The machines were beautiful and they worked tremendously better than the PCs of the day on creative apps. Windows software was shit;  Mac OS worked like a dream.  It was truly a joy to use after the frustration of the PC.  No viruses!  And you couldn't get the programs you wanted.  Apple owned the creative market, and rightly so. 

As with New York real estate, everybody wants to live near artists or look like them. So you would also see banks of Macs in offices of all kinds. 

I think that over time, creatives have abandoned Apple, not because they suddenly thought the products weren't beautiful any more, but because they can get more bang for their buck out of a PC.  Not everybody who wants to make art is rich--far from it.  They don't need the fastest processor any more than they need a Lamborghini--they buy what they can afford, and try to get the best they can.  Windows OS is fine nowadays. Totally does the job.    Apple going after creatives with computers is ancient history. They make trillions now with a wide range of products. They have totally lost the battle for creatives to the PC.    And that's why such a large amount of creative software is PC only--it's the market where the money is.   The war is over and the PC won.  Next.

From my experience in the film industry, nearly all of the best independent films of the last few decades were made with regular computers, both PCs and Macs. The budgets on those kinds of films tend to be  very, very low. It's not about processing power--it's about talent.  And honestly, I think you could make Marvel movies without buying the latest things.  Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you'd have to abandon the film without the latest processor.  STAR WARS did pretty decent business. 

The exception is creative software on tablets which is still owned by Apple.  If you want to play music on a tablet, most of the best stuff is iPad only.

But Apple stuff is very beautiful and that's why they can charge a premium for it and people will happily pay for that beauty.  It is truly art sitting in your studio and you can't put a price on that.   I read that the stand for one of their new monitors was a thousand bucks.  It must be a hell of a stand.  You should sell tickets to let people look at it.  I bought a great 4K Monitor for $600, stand and all.  The image is way is way better than the Apple monitors I used to drool over years ago.  But I admit, the stand is just a freaking stand. It holds the monitor up and that's good enough for me.

I still have an old desktop Mac, the fourth Apple computer I bought. I spent what was a fortune for me at the time, and It sits unused  on the floor because I can't get ten cents for it. You can't put current OS on it.  Not worth selling and who knows?  I may find a use for it because it is still a powerful  computer with the old OS. Maybe I'll go in there and output some stems from an old Logic project.  It's just lost all of its value unlike a PC of the same vintage that can easily run Windows 10.

When there is a conversation about price between PC and Apple it is always about the most expensive thing you can buy.  If you compare how much computer you can get (and the price of upgrading RAM, hard dive, etc) for a thousand bucks or less,  there's nothing to talk about.  The war is over.

Which doesn't mean that these conversations won't go on forever, because reality is tribal.  Everybody sees what they want to see, and finds ways to make facts fit into their beliefs.   Human, too human...

Edited January 28, 2022 by Reid Rosefelt

[Doug Rintoul]

This ^^^^^^ A thousand times this.

[Hugh Mann]

45 minutes ago, Reid Rosefelt said:

These discussions will go on forever. 

. They have totally lost the battle for creatives to the PC.    And that's why such a large amount of creative software is PC only--it's the market where the money is.   The war is over and the PC won.  Next.

 

When there is a conversation about price between PC and Apple it is always about the most expensive thing you can buy.  If you compare how much computer you can get (and the price of upgrading RAM, hard dive, etc) for a thousand bucks or less,  there's nothing to talk about.  The war is over.

Which doesn't mean that these conversations won't go on forever, because reality is tribal.  Everybody sees what they want to see, and finds ways to make facts fit into their beliefs.   Human, too human...

All the creatives I know are on Mac. Myself included. What data do you have that says macs for creatives is dead? Or is that just your feeling?   cause that’s a pretty definitive statement for something that’s near impossible to measure.   
 

And you’re  wrong about bang  for the buck.   Mac M1 mini can be had for $650! Even less used.  
 

As far as tribal crap.  I could care less about that.  If windows had something comparable, I’d buy that.  But they don’t.  It’s all just tools anyway.  Use whatever makes you creative and you can afford.  

I agree that these discussions tend to go on forever, lol.  Use whatever you want and can afford. 
 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Hugh Mann

[Doug Rintoul]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mann said:

All the creatives I know are on Mac. Myself included. What data do you have that says macs for creatives is dead? Or is that just your feeling?   cause that’s a pretty definitive statement for something that’s near impossible to measure.   
 

And you’re  wrong about bang  for the buck.   Mac M1 mini can be had for $650! Even less used.  
 

As far as tribal crap.  I could care less about that.  If windows had something comparable, I’d buy that.  But they don’t.  It’s all just tools anyway.  Use whatever makes you creative and you can afford.  

I agree that these discussions tend to go on forever, lol.  Use whatever you want and can afford. 
 

The Mac M1 Mini is not a complete system. It does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. You can't upgrade the memory, and if you want more than 256 GB of storage, you have to resort to an external drive. As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast.

If you agree that these discussion tend to go on forever, why do you participate? Why are you trying to convince everyone that your choice is the superior choice? Windows does have something comparable. You have just convinced yourself that it doesn't. Whether you want to admit it or not, your responses approach that of an evangelist.

[Hugh Mann]

12 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

The Mac M1 Mini is not a complete system. It does not come with a keyboard, mouse, or monitor. You can't upgrade the memory, and if you want more than 256 GB of storage, you have to resort to an external drive. As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast.

If you agree that these discussion tend to go on forever, why do you participate? Why are you trying to convince everyone that your choice is the superior choice? Windows does have something comparable. You have just convinced yourself that it doesn't. Whether you want to admit it or not, your responses approach that of an evangelist.

why do you participate?  do you even have a Mac?  since you ask,  ill tell you why I participate.  because there is often a lot of misinformation and hidden agendas(hate apple,  selling their own computers,  whatever),  in these threads.  Like when the expert claimed an 8gb M1 Mac mini is only good for a paperweight.  And he never even tested one himself.  So I  proved that was an incredibly incorrect statement.  Or when people try to claim they are overpriced.  

someone looking for a good computer could benefit from hearing  other points of views. Or someone that's fed up with windows may see a $650 (or cheaper) m1 Mac as a great choice (it is). M1 air can be had for around $850.   isn't that what the spirit of these discussions is for?  The fact that you think im claiming superiority reflects on your inferiority complex, to tell you the truth.  You are projecting  motives and ways of thinking that are not where im at.  Get off you personal attacks. Put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.  Geez. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Hugh Mann

[Paul_in_wales]

11 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast.

past experience is apple support old OS versions for about 3 years, so if they did pull rosetta there should be a decent buffer rather than being an overnight switch being flicked.    that's assuming the owner wants/needs to run a maintained OS - if not, it doesn't really affect them at all unless/until they have a need to run a newer OS, but even then they may be able to run a later but pre-rosetta-kill macos version.   

[Doug Rintoul]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

why do you participate?  do you even have a Mac?  since you ask,  ill tell you why I participate.  because there is often a lot of misinformation and hidden agendas(hate apple,  selling their own computers,  whatever).   in these threads.  Like when the expert claimed an 8gb M1 Mac mini is only good for a paperweight.  And he never even tested one himself.  So I  proved that was an incredibly incorrect statement.  Or when people try to claim they are overpriced.  

someone looking for a good computer could benefit from hearing  other points of views. Or someone that's fed up with windows may see a $650 (or cheaper) m1 Mac as a great choice (it is). M1 air can be had for around $850.   isn't that what the spirit of these discussions is for?  The fact that you think im claiming superiority reflects on your inferiority complex, to tell you the truth.  You are projecting  motives and ways of thinking that are not where im at.  Get off you personnel attacks. Put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.  Geez. 

I am not opposed to other points views. I do think the M1 Mac could be a great choice, and as I have stated in the past, I think Apple has done marvels with the M1 in terms of power management/performance. I just dislike over the top blanket statements like Macs are the best bang for the buck and M1 blows Intel out the of the water. There are just so many factors when it comes to choosing a platform on which to be creative. 

I am not intending to attack you personally and if I am coming across like that, I apologise. It is just that this seems to be the only topic you participate in, and every time it is a hard defense of Macs. I don't think you realize how you are coming across.

I did not say you were claiming superiority, I said that you were claiming that your choice of a Mac was superior.  Do you not feel that? I am very comforable in my choice of Windows as my daily driver. I don't know where you got the impression that I don't own a Mac. I do own Macs, and I work with them every day. I am just not really enamored with them as some people are.

So there you go. I am not sure what the source of your anger is, but I am sorry I contributed to it.

[Doug Rintoul]

21 minutes ago, Paul_in_wales said:

past experience is apple support old OS versions for about 3 years, so if they did pull rosetta there should be a decent buffer rather than being an overnight switch being flicked.    that's assuming the owner wants/needs to run a maintained OS - if not, it doesn't really affect them at all unless/until they have a need to run a newer OS, but even then they may be able to run a later but pre-rosetta-kill macos version.   

Past experience has shown that when Apple pulls support for an older OS, they also pull support for software that runs on the older OS. Just try finding a copy of Microsoft Remote Desktop for anything older than Mojave, or Garageband for anything older than Big Sur. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Doug Rintoul

[Hugh Mann]

1 minute ago, Doug Rintoul said:

I am not opposed to other points views. I do think the M1 Mac could be a great choice, and as I have stated in the past, I think Apple has done marvels with the M1 in terms of power management/performance. I just dislike over the top blanket statements like Macs are the best bang for the buck and M1 blows Intel out the of the water. There are just so many factors when it comes to choosing a platform on which to be creative. 

I am not intending to attack you personally and if I am coming across like that, I apologise. It is just that this seems to be the only topic you participate in, and every time it is a hard defense of Macs. I don't think you realize how you are coming across.

I did not say you were claiming superiority, I said that you were claiming that your choice of a Mac was superior.  Do you not feel that? I am very comforable in my choice of Windows as my daily driver. I don't know where you got the impression that I don't own a Mac. I do own Macs, and I work with them every day. I am just not really enamored with them as some people are.

So there you go. I am not sure what the source of your anger is, but I am sorry I contributed to it.

why do you care what topics I participate in? if you need to know that too,  I only chime in when I have personal knowledge on a subject.  

And now you're gonna do a little passive aggressive put down by saying im angry?  dude enough.  Im not angry, but I am getting annoyed by your agenda of trying to prove me wrong all the time.  Can you leave the personal stuff out of it?  or better yet,  ignore me.  I think I will follow my own advice and just ignore you too.  take care. 

[Paul_in_wales]

6 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

Past experience has shown that when Apple pulls support for an older OS, they also pull support for software that runs on the older OS. Just try finding a copy of Microsoft Remote Desktop for anything older than Mojave, or Garageband for anything older than Big Sur. 

you're moving goalposts here - that's not the same as "As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast".  ableton 11 runs fine on 10.13, which is from 2017 - but you're missing the point about people not necessarily needing to upgrade.   If you have to resort to edge cases, then this isn't a real discussion at all.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Paul_in_wales

[Doug Rintoul]

1 minute ago, Paul_in_wales said:

you're moving goalposts here - that's not the same as "As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast".  ableton runs fine on 10.13, which is from 2017 - but you're missing the point about people not necessarily needing to upgrade.   If you have to resort to edge cases, then this isn't a real discussion at all.

Maybe I did missed your point. My point was that sometimes there is a need to upgrade, because the software you need to run is no longer supported or available on OS you are currently running. The cases I stated were things I actually experienced. Yes, you can run Ableton on 10.13 but you may need to run other software as well which will not run on 10.13.

[Paul_in_wales]

I think we're roughly on the same page - I'd rephrase what you wrote as "if/when you need to upgrade to the version of macos that kills off rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast".

[Doug Rintoul]

17 minutes ago, Paul_in_wales said:

I think we're roughly on the same page - I'd rephrase what you wrote as "if/when you need to upgrade to the version of macos that kills off rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast".

Yup. That is what I meant to say. It may be a non-issue, because by that time, hopefully you will have found alternatives or discovered you did not need those plugins after all.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Doug Rintoul

[Hugh Mann]

52 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

I just dislike over the top blanket statements 

1 hour ago, Doug Rintoul said:

 As soon as Apple pulls Rosetta, all your legacy plugins become toast.

 

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ee05bfa9-be18-45a0-9e5e-3c2594eb431a    

Just had to point that out lol.  Ok whatever.  I really don't have a dog in any fight.  And im all for peace and love.  take care.  

[abacab]

I build my own PC's. I like doing that and having a lot of control over the components and software that I use.

But if I didn't know much about computers, I would probably have saved up and got a Mac.

And if I had a Mac I would probably spend more time making music...

[Doug Rintoul]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ee05bfa9-be18-45a0-9e5e-3c2594eb431a    

Just had to point that out lol.  Ok whatever.  I really don't have a dog in any fight.  And im all for peace and love.  take care.  

Point taken about over the top blanket statements. You did see my response to Paul_in_wales though, right?  

I am not sure of the point of the video. 

[Hugh Mann]

8 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

Point taken about over the top blanket statements. You did see my response to Paul_in_wales though, right?  

I am not sure of the point of the video. 

the video is from the office. if you are familiar with it,  its where Dwight shuns Andy.  He un-shuns him to answer him,  the re-shuns him, lol.  

[Doug Rintoul]

1 hour ago, Hugh Mann said:

the video is from the office. if you are familiar with it,  its where Dwight shuns Andy.  He un-shuns him to answer him,  the re-shuns him, lol.  

Okay. So you ignore me, then un-ignore me to respond and then ignore me again. 

I actually don't like using ignore. I feel all voices deserve to be heard even if I don't agree with them. Who knows, I may even learn something from a contrary opinion, and even change my own opinion. I think too many people live in echo chambers and are too quick to take offence when someone offer an opposing view.

Hugh, I am not trying to be passive aggressive but maybe that is my tendency. Your words sounded angry to me, or at least it seemed you were pissed off with me. My apology was sincere. And maybe even this statement could be considered passive aggressive. I don't know.

This has spiraled away from the original topic into popcorn territory. I am fine to let it go.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Doug Rintoul

[Hugh Mann]

23 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said:

Okay. So you ignore me, then un-ignore me to respond and then ignore me again. 

I actually don't like using ignore. I feel all voices deserve to be heard even if I don't agree with them. Who knows, I may even learn something from a contrary opinion, and even change my own opinion. I think too many people live in echo chambers and are too quick to take offence when someone offer an opposing view.

Hugh, I am not trying to be passive aggressive but maybe that is my tendency. Your words sounded angry to me, or at least it seemed you were pissed off with me. My apology was sincere. And maybe even this statement could be considered passive aggressive. I don't know.

This has spiraled away from the original topic into popcorn territory. I am fine to let it go.

yeah internet stuff, text, and emails can easily be misinterpreted.  I know ive been misinterpreted quite a bit here.  im really just a wisenheimer who loves music tech stuff.  the shunning thing is a joke.  if you know the show, its pretty funny.  but yeah.  too much negativity as it is.  clean slate?  just agree Macs are far superior than anything else and we'll be fine  ?.