Control Surfaces ​?​

[Dave Oliffe]

Hi folks,

I have 2 controllers, an M Audio Oxygen Pro 25 and an Arturia Keylab 49.

Both are set up and working in my CbB, as far as inputting MIDI notes using the keys.

However, I have no idea how to get the faders and sliders set up to control automation changes. I currently have to use the mouse. 

I've tried and tried to find simple steps to get them working, but everything I find feels complex and confusing.

Can someone help me out? Surely it's a simple process.

Thankyou

[Tony Conway]

Right-clicking on a slider, knob, etc usually gives you a midi learn option. Then it's just a case of wiggling the controller that you want to use and the PC 'catches on' to what you want to do and pairs the parameter with the controller.

[Dave Oliffe]

8 minutes ago, Tony Conway said:

Right-clicking on a slider, knob, etc usually gives you a midi learn option. Then it's just a case of wiggling the controller that you want to use and the PC 'catches on' to what you want to do and pairs the parameter with the controller.

Hi, yeah this is something I've tried and even this doesn't work. It always used to though, with previous controllers, which is why I'm positive it's gonna just be a silly setting somewhere. 

[Mike Z]

Hi Dave, this post might be of some use to you.  I struggled to set up my Oxygen Pro 49, spent a lot of time trying out various options. My post linked here covers the steps I took to make it work (more or less, there are still some issues) but take the time to read through the entire thread because there's a lot of good information about setting up controllers.

 

 

[Dave Oliffe]

On 1/25/2022 at 8:58 PM, Mike Z said:

Hi Dave, this post might be of some use to you.  I struggled to set up my Oxygen Pro 49, spent a lot of time trying out various options. My post linked here covers the steps I took to make it work (more or less, there are still some issues) but take the time to read through the entire thread because there's a lot of good information about setting up controllers.

 

 

Thanks, Mike. I've actually read and re-read this thread several times, but there's so much of it that just goes over my head, I have no idea and feel nervous about dabbling or changing settings in case it messes something else up.

I actually installed the free version of Ableton Live Lite which came with my M Audio purchase - WOW! From the get-go, EVERYTHING is in perfect harmony. Even the drum pads lit up in colours I'd never seen and could trigger sounds. Every single knob is assigned already to every instrument or plugin. Fantastic. I really wish Cakewalk had that kind of integration. We shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops. I'm gonna try and learn Ableton - use it perhaps more in the composing/sound design stage, then open it all up in Cakewalk for the mix stage.

[azslow3]

10 hours ago, Dave Oliffe said:

I really wish Cakewalk had that kind of integration. We shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops.

Cakewalk supports a lot of staff, including DAW control and  plug-ins control. Normally it is up to hardware producer to integrate with Cakewalk (you pay them, not Cakewalk). M Audio does not (as well as all other producers).

Making the device more or less work with Cakewalk takes about 1 minute. F.e. see my post in mentioned thread. Could M Audio at least write that in documentation? Yes, they could. But they have not. Are lengthy changes of setting mentioned in the thread required? Not really. But some people like hard ways.

Finally, are there some reasons to take "hard ways"? Yes. If you don't like what and how is controlled by default, you can setup it the way it does what you want (from available in Cakewalk features). But that requires background in MIDI and surfaces, as well as time. But primary factor is the wish to accomplish the task. In most cases with Cakewalk and surface, it ends with "I wish someone else has done that already...".

 

[Dave Oliffe]

14 minutes ago, azslow3 said:

Cakewalk supports a lot of staff, including DAW control and  plug-ins control. Normally it is up to hardware producer to integrate with Cakewalk (you pay them, not Cakewalk). M Audio does not (as well as all other producers).

Making the device more or less work with Cakewalk takes about 1 minute. F.e. see my post in mentioned thread. Could M Audio at least write that in documentation? Yes, they could. But they have not. Are lengthy changes of setting mentioned in the thread required? Not really. But some people like hard ways.

Finally, are there some reasons to take "hard ways"? Yes. If you don't like what and how is controlled by default, you can setup it the way it does what you want (from available in Cakewalk features). But that requires background in MIDI and surfaces, as well as time. But primary factor is the wish to accomplish the task. In most cases with Cakewalk and surface, it ends with "I wish someone else has done that already...".

 

Thanksm, I'll take another look at your comment in the thread. All I want is for one or two of the knobs to control things in Cakewalk - i'm not interested in anything further or more complicated than that.

Somehow, I've managed to get my Oxygen 25 to control functions in a couple of synths - this is progress! However, I can't get it to control anything in Cakewalk - namely, the pan and send controls on a track. If I could just work this out!! MIDI listen/learn doesn't work.

[azslow3]

Since I don't have the device, I can't tell what exactly M-Audio is emulating in Mackie mode. They also don't write that in the documentation. With one fader and 8 knobs it is hard emulate 9 faders and 8 encoders, not to say around 100 physical buttons, jogger, etc. That is why I have written "more or less" work, just the way M-Audio has foreseen. BTW close to the same functionality you will get in many other daws in which this controller works as Mackie (f.e. REAPER and Cubase).

Just from photos it is clear that this controller is Ableton oriented. No wonder it gives most it can when used there, out of the box.

MIDI learn technic is good to use with instrument plug-ins. Most of them support such learning. Also changes will be recorded into MIDI items and edited as CCs.
"Universal" plug-ins control,  including FXes, use "ACT Dynamic mapping" approach. It exists and works well, once configured right.  You can try it if you try "Generic Surface" approach mentioned later. There are long living related bugs, you will need "AZ ACT Fix" utility to use it in practice (some people claim they can use it without... my mapping file was always broken after a while, so without that utility I had no joy).

For DAW controlling, some (more smart then MIDI learn) integration should be used. If Mackie mode will be "no go" for you, the next bet is Generic Surface. For that you will have to learn more (under 1 hour for reading M-Audio documentation), to make DAW mode on M-Audio not try emulate Mackie and send simple CCs to DAW port instead (any... just different for different controls).  "MIDI learning" inside Generic Surface is then as easy as in VSTi - select parameter, click "Learn", press/turn control, repeat for other controls.

I don't recommend "ACT MIDI" for that device, that plug-in is strictly 8+1 buttons and 8+8 continuous controls oriented. Your 8+1 continuous controls + 8 buttons + 16 pads do not "fit" into it (multiple "ACT MIDI" instances, suggested by some people, is looking for troubles). If you need the "next level" (so you find Mackie and Generic Surface insufficient), you will need AZ Controller. But that is more then an hour time investment...

[Dave Oliffe]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:27 PM, azslow3 said:

Since I don't have the device, I can't tell what exactly M-Audio is emulating in Mackie mode. They also don't write that in the documentation. With one fader and 8 knobs it is hard emulate 9 faders and 8 encoders, not to say around 100 physical buttons, jogger, etc. That is why I have written "more or less" work, just the way M-Audio has foreseen. BTW close to the same functionality you will get in many other daws in which this controller works as Mackie (f.e. REAPER and Cubase).

Just from photos it is clear that this controller is Ableton oriented. No wonder it gives most it can when used there, out of the box.

MIDI learn technic is good to use with instrument plug-ins. Most of them support such learning. Also changes will be recorded into MIDI items and edited as CCs.
"Universal" plug-ins control,  including FXes, use "ACT Dynamic mapping" approach. It exists and works well, once configured right.  You can try it if you try "Generic Surface" approach mentioned later. There are long living related bugs, you will need "AZ ACT Fix" utility to use it in practice (some people claim they can use it without... my mapping file was always broken after a while, so without that utility I had no joy).

For DAW controlling, some (more smart then MIDI learn) integration should be used. If Mackie mode will be "no go" for you, the next bet is Generic Surface. For that you will have to learn more (under 1 hour for reading M-Audio documentation), to make DAW mode on M-Audio not try emulate Mackie and send simple CCs to DAW port instead (any... just different for different controls).  "MIDI learning" inside Generic Surface is then as easy as in VSTi - select parameter, click "Learn", press/turn control, repeat for other controls.

I don't recommend "ACT MIDI" for that device, that plug-in is strictly 8+1 buttons and 8+8 continuous controls oriented. Your 8+1 continuous controls + 8 buttons + 16 pads do not "fit" into it (multiple "ACT MIDI" instances, suggested by some people, is looking for troubles). If you need the "next level" (so you find Mackie and Generic Surface insufficient), you will need AZ Controller. But that is more then an hour time investment...

I appreciate your help with this, thank you.

[John Montgomery]

Is there any advantage to using Mackie Control Universal over just say using the ACT MIDI Controller and creating the controller map?  I'm attempting to set up the Native Instruments MK2 S88.

Edited February 4, 2022 by John Montgomery

[azslow3]

ACT MIDI provides no feedback, so no LEDs, no track names, etc. Also the number of mappable controls is limited. So when Mackie is emulated well on device, using corresponding mode gives advantages. The disadvantage is fixed layout, it does what it does.

[John Montgomery]

12 hours ago, azslow3 said:

ACT MIDI provides no feedback, so no LEDs, no track names, etc. Also the number of mappable controls is limited. So when Mackie is emulated well on device, using corresponding mode gives advantages. The disadvantage is fixed layout, it does what it does.

I'll try McCleod's MCU (he says it's based on your original MCU build).  When I use MCU as the driver, do you use ACT at all to map, or is it implied by the driver?

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, John Montgomery said:

I'll try McCleod's MCU (he says it's based on your original MCU build).  When I use MCU as the driver, do you use ACT at all to map, or is it implied by the driver?

Just use the one bundled with Cakewalk - it's got all of Azslow3's enhancements as well as mine.

[John Montgomery]

21 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Just use the one bundled with Cakewalk - it's got all of Azslow3's enhancements as well as mine.

Thanks very much for the tip (and sorry for butchering your name!)

[John Montgomery]

Yes, the Mackie Control Univeral that ships works fine.  Still trying to figure out how to use multiple instruments with the KK.  For memory/processing optimization, do you run KK or Kontakt?  It appears that I can load multiple synths in Kontakt, but not Komplete Kontrol.