Cakewalk & Midi Jitter?

[FJ Lamela]

After reading and see this interesting articles and testings...

Daw v Daw 7.2 update, again... (admiralbumblebee.com)

Daw V DAW 7.2 - MIDI Input Latency/Jitter tests for All DAWs (S1 redeems itself?!?) - YouTube

I ask myself and the great Cakewalk team, the following question, What is the current midi jitter situation at Cakewalk?

Unfortunately the creator of the test has not included Cakewalk in his tests, so we do not know from his methodology the situation of this fantastic Daw.

But knowing that they suffer from midi Jitter:

ProTools, Cubase, Digital Performer and Waveform

and that have no midi jitter: Logic, Ardor, Live, Mixbus and Reaper

I would like to know what situation Cakewalk is in.

It is curious that the creator of the test explains that the developers of Presonus Studio One have corrected the Midi Jitter problems after reading his article and knowing his results. I want always, thank the Cakewalk team for their efforts, and also thank them for an answer to this interesting question in my humble opinion.

Thanks again.

Edited January 24, 2022 by F.J. Lamela

[Quick Math]

Thanks for posting this because I am also curious.

I have also watched his videos before and I was wondering how Cakewalk by Bandlab is regarding these topics discussed in his DAW comparison videos.

His videos were very interesting to watch. Pan, Automation, Jitter, etc...

I felt for the most of topics he covered where CbB is also included in the comparison, Cakewalk by Bandlab was doing well.

 

 

 

 

[John Vere]

Problem I have with these tests, and he admits to this over and over, he makes mistakes in how he was making tests and taking measurements so this tells me the results are probably inaccurate.  Also this seems to be using Macs so probably why Cakewalk is not on the lists.   Besides, this is sort of data gathering is like saying 96hz sounds better than 48hz. Does the average person really care? 

Sure it's good to know if your DAW is screwing up your sound, would I change to another DAW if I found out mine is performing at  .01 % less quality than another?? nope.  

[User 905133]

Looks somewhat interesting.  I was intrigued by the role of the microprocessor (represented by an Arduino in the image).  It reminded me of MIDI responsiveness tests using different baud rates [serial communication rates] going into a joystick port using a standard joystick interface cable (IIRC) from a Mega 256 and driving a software synth [E-Mu].  I was pleasantly surprised that I could pump the data out at 11520 baud and the PC / soft synth handled it at that speed..  

I just took a quick look at the links and didn't see anything that talked about the serial communication rate, although that might be negligible in terms of measuring total "jitter."  

Quote

What is NOT being tested:

• The total Jitter - Most tests will only have 3-5 frames. This is not enough to determine the exact number of buffers or amount of jitter, only its existence and a guess.
• Audio Jitter.
• MIDI->MIDI Jitter (even though this does exist in most DAWs with MIDI->Audio Jitter)
• “Sound Quality”

At the time I used a standalone soft synth.  It might be fun to dig out the Mega 256 and see if I can pump MIDI out that fast to the DAW.  (Not sure it would be possible.)

Anyhow, thanks for the links.

ADDENDUM (after I read John's comments) -- from the video linked above:

Quote

Jitter is a variation in latency.  If each input output cycle has a different latency, then it has jitter.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by User 905133
to add a quote about "jitter" from the video

[Byron Dickens]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[User 905133]

55 minutes ago, bdickens said:

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Is it safe to assume you are referring to the admiral's attempts to measure "MIDI Jitter" in different DAWS? 

[Byron Dickens]

Yes.

 

Especially since, as mentioned previously, these "tests" lack sufficient scientific rigor.

Edited January 24, 2022 by bdickens

[Xoo]

3 hours ago, bdickens said:

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

v2 or v3 angels?

[FJ Lamela]

4 hours ago, John Vere said:

Sure it's good to know if your DAW is screwing up your sound, would I change to another DAW if I found out mine is performing at  .01 % less quality than another?? nope.  

I wouldn't change either. But in my humble opinion I think it's good to know what our Daw fails, and also for developers to be able to fix this kind of thing that makes the product go from good to Excellent.

?

[John Vere]

True enough. But if there’s midi latency involved it’s something we have dealt  with since the beginning of midi and hooking up midi devices.
Boy could you notice it if you dare to daisy chain sound modules together using the Midi  thru ports.  I immediately purchased a midi patch bay. Roland A880. This was in the 80’s. 
And as I remember Atari had rock solid Midi timing compared to a PC back then. Probably Apple did too. 
 

If all you are doing is working ITB with VST instruments then Midi latency is not a factor. Even if you’re input is from a controller Quantize will make things perfect. But one needs to be aware of latency especially when using hardware synths. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by John Vere

[FJ Lamela]

11 hours ago, John Vere said:

True enough. But if there’s midi latency involved it’s something we have dealt  with since the beginning of midi and hooking up midi devices.
Boy could you notice it if you dare to daisy chain sound modules together using the Midi  thru ports.  I immediately purchased a midi patch bay. Roland A880. This was in the 80’s. 
And as I remember Atari had rock solid Midi timing compared to a PC back then. Probably Apple did too. 
 

If all you are doing is working ITB with VST instruments then Midi latency is not a factor. Even if you’re input is from a controller Quantize will make things perfect. But one needs to be aware of latency especially when using hardware synths. 

Thanks for the info.

[John Vere]

I think he’s using a Mac.