Orchestral Tools Ark 5 and complete Ark bundle

[Matthew Sorrels]

They did get back to me.  If you bought one of the bundles of Ark from NI you cannot use the serial number that Native Access shows you.  You need to find the bundle serial number to use when registering with Orchestral Tools.  (Which of course is completely different than their instructions).  You also have to pick each product in the Sine Cross Registration and use the single serial number.  So in my case I had to use the Ark 3 & 4 bundle serial number on Ark 3 and again on Ark 4.  I was only able to find the bundle serial number by logging into my Native Instruments account and looking for it there (it isn't in Native Access at all).  Trying to use the serial numbers in Native Access will just get you locked out for entering wrong serial numbers.

So now I have Ark 3 & 4 available in Sine.  And qualified for the discount for Ark 5 (166.40 Euros).  Since I'm insane (and a completest) I went ahead and bought it.  Though it was funny, after I paid for it their website showed a page saying I needed to make sure I had the most recent Sine player and had a link.  That link downloaded the older version of Sine.  So I had to go back and get the real new version.  lol.

I've only had CSS for a little while, so I'm basing not liking it on a very short time frame.  But it's timing games with MIDI track alignment has really caused me a lot of headaches.  I mostly use MIDI loops or generated MIDI or MIDI written in a staff or Piano Roll, 100% quantized.  That kind of "by the numbers" MIDI seems to have issues with alignment with CSS.  I have other libraries with delays and or other timing issues too, but this one seems far harder to tame.  I'm sure some of it is me just not having read the manual and watched videos.  I think the way I use MIDI and libraries may be slightly more sensitive to on the grid issues than say someone that plays parts live.  It also didn't help that right after I got it, all these new string libraries shipped, making me think the grass is much greener over there and I wasted my money.

Of course the real truth is I really didn't need another string library.  And I don't really need any of these other new string libraries either.  But my brain may not be wired that way.  I still have hope for CSS but my first impression is not very favorable.

 

[Yan Filiatrault]

I have Ark 1 and 3 and my price to complete the bundle is 592 Euros. It’s cheaper than the regular price of Ark 2, and I would get 2, 4 and 5, but that’s still a lot of money!…

[Amicus717]

I have eyed the OT libraries for a while -- they're right up my alley, for the most part -- but Sine Player is pretty unappealing. I've used it a little bit, as I have a few of their free libraries and got a couple of patches in a giveaway that ran a year ago. But it did nothing for me, and I really find it clunky and awkward. I much prefer using Kontakt, and I've no interest in dropping a pretty big chunk of cash on stuff that I won't enjoy using, no matter how useful it may be in my template.

 

[Fleer]

The only player playing well until now is EastWest’s Opus. Who would have known. 
 

Edith!

Edited December 22, 2021 by Fleer

[antler]

9 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

But it's timing games with MIDI track alignment has really caused me a lot of headaches.  I mostly use MIDI loops or generated MIDI or MIDI written in a staff or Piano Roll, 100% quantized.  That kind of "by the numbers" MIDI seems to have issues with alignment with CSS.

Yes - the samples in CSS have an attack time, so you'll need to unsnap from the grid and move the notes back a little, much like some vocal libraries. You have two legato speeds (three in advanced mode) that depend on note velocity - when you transition between notes, you'll need to move the MIDI notes back a little depending on their velocity (softest results in slowest legato)

[Matthew Sorrels]

Ark 5 finally finished downloading (it was very slow to download).  Initial impressions are it's a lot like Ark 1.  The strings and brass are both very nice.  The Analog Synths seem like a waste of disk space (also seems like it's just one synth, not plural).  Without an effects engine I'd say any "synth" sounds are pretty useless in a sample player.  IK's Syntronik shows how powerful a good effect engine can be with samples from a synth.  Everything i hated about Sine is still true with this update.  Doesn't appear they really addressed much at all.  The Shepard tone articulations are kind of interesting (and new), I can see using that.  Some of the combo patches are really nice, great sound right out of the box.  But then with Sine you don't have a lot of options or controls, so if it's not good when you load it, it won't get better.

I do think the video's on their site are pretty honest about what it does.  If any of that looks good for you, it might be useful.  Just remember it has no percussion, so discount that when watching/listening.

[Artplex]

On 12/21/2021 at 2:12 PM, Matthew Sorrels said:

So I've been trying to enter my Ark 3 & 4 serial numbers (I bought them at NI during one of the few sales on OT instruments).  But their website decides you have entered the serial number before you finish typing and now has "locked" me out and won't let me try again (it says try again in 1 minute but that's a lie).  They have managed to achieve IK levels of anger and hate in just a few minutes of time.  Epic!

I've sent them a note with the serial numbers their broken website won't accept or even let me enter, but at this point I doubt they will do anything. 

They didn't fix the Choir in Ark 4 either see this post on VI:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/any-guesses-as-to-when-ark-4-will-show-up-on-sine.118605/post-5006128

Guess I'm going to buy something from someone else.  I did pick up Cinematic Studio Strings on black Friday as my "big" instrument purchase for the season, but honestly I hate it.  I think this season is going to be a bit of a downer if I can't find something else interesting (and on sale).

Hi Matthew!

Where exactly on the NI website did you find the BUNDLE serial number? I've been looking all over and I only see the single Native Access serials for Ark1-2 which is the bundle I have, but the Orchestra Tools' website won't take those serial numbers.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Bye!

[kevin H]

1 hour ago, Artplex said:

Hi Matthew!

Where exactly on the NI website did you find the BUNDLE serial number? I've been looking all over and I only see the single Native Access serials for Ark1-2 which is the bundle I have, but the Orchestra Tools' website won't take those serial numbers.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Bye!

I got this working by getting serial from NI website.  Once you login to NI website. Click on the silhouette ?, and then my products and serials. Then scroll down to installed products and find the serial for Ark 1 and then Ark 2.  For me I bought bundle for Ark 3 and 4 so I used same serial in Sine tool to register each.  For me there was a delay after selecting Ark version in registration menu in sine tool.  Once it has a check mark next to name then enter the serial.  Seems it needs to talk to server first.  Once you wait a few seconds and you see check mark it will work.  Prior to that it looks like it’s not accepting the serial as button to register appears greyed out.  

[artturner]

15 hours ago, antler said:

Yes - the samples in CSS have an attack time, so you'll need to unsnap from the grid and move the notes back a little, much like some vocal libraries. You have two legato speeds (three in advanced mode) that depend on note velocity - when you transition between notes, you'll need to move the MIDI notes back a little depending on their velocity (softest results in slowest legato)

You can also leave them on the grid and use negative track delay.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/negative-track-delay-database-spreadsheet.105332/

[Matthew Sorrels]

2 hours ago, kevin H said:

I got this working by getting serial from NI website.  Once you login to NI website. Click on the silhouette ?, and then my products and serials. Then scroll down to installed products and find the serial for Ark 1 and then Ark 2.  For me I bought bundle for Ark 3 and 4 so I used same serial in Sine tool to register each.  For me there was a delay after selecting Ark version in registration menu in sine tool.  Once it has a check mark next to name then enter the serial.  Seems it needs to talk to server first.  Once you wait a few seconds and you see check mark it will work.  Prior to that it looks like it’s not accepting the serial as button to register appears greyed out.  

Yep.  This was the only place I could find my bundle serial numbers, which is what OT's website wants.  Use the same serial number for every product in the bundle.  You do also need to wait when you paste the serial number in for it to "verify" it before you can press the import button.  I copied it from the NI site and pasted it into OT's form.

[Artplex]

Well, I checked the NI website and Native Access and the serial numbers are the same ones I already have. I don't know if there should be a SINGLE serial number for the bundle., in which case I will have to contact NI support and see if they can help, because every time I tried to register the serial number I have at the Orchestra Tools website or SINE show an error message saying that the serial number of the product I want to register is either, INVALID or is not a SINE product.

Note: I have the 4 Arks, and the reason I want to register them with SINE is so I can get Ark 5 at the cheapest price.

OK, that's all for now.

Thanks!

 

[antler]

8 hours ago, artturner said:

You can also leave them on the grid and use negative track delay.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/negative-track-delay-database-spreadsheet.105332/

Good idea, though you'll need to make sure all legato transitions are done at the same speed/note-velocity. Doing them manually also may (or may not) produce a more natural sounding result when the different sections play against each other.

Edited December 23, 2021 by antler