How to assign mod wheel & expression pedal

[jkoseattle]

Long time CW user, but just bought a keyboard with a mod wheel and expression pedal. I understand that I can assign them to different effects/channels for each instrument, but I don't understand where/how I do that. The instruments are EastWest Play. Can someone point me to where I assign mod wheel and expression pedal settings?

[mdiemer]

The way I do it is in Event List. Go to the very first note in the list, hit insert on your keyboard, which will create a duplicate of that note,  then change the type of event from note to controller. Put in 7 for volume, and set the value to 100. Then, with your cursor on that event, hit insert again, and this time change the CC7 to CC11. Put in 100 for the value.

The CC7 is for a starting value, or modwheel. some people use CC1 for this, it depends on the library. but I have found that 7 works in 90% of cases. The CC11 is for fine adjusting as needed on the fly.

Edited May 14, 2019 by mdiemer

[Sidney Earl Goodroe]

7 is a straight volume controller. Controller 11 in some cases will control the brightness as well as the volume.

Some vsts and vsti have a learn function on them so you can click on the knob or slider and a window will appear saying LEARN. Then you move the slider or knob or foot control on your keyboard and the vst feature should respond.

[jkoseattle]

22 hours ago, mdiemer said:

The way I do it is in Event List. Go to the very first note in the list, hit insert on your keyboard, which will create a duplicate of that note,  then change the type of event from note to controller. Put in 7 for volume, and set the value to 100. Then, with your cursor on that event, hit insert again, and this time change the CC7 to CC11. Put in 100 for the value.

The CC7 is for a starting value, or modwheel. some people use CC1 for this, it depends on the library. but I have found that 7 works in 90% of cases. The CC11 is for fine adjusting as needed on the fly.

Thanks! But that doesn't work. Under the Data column in Event list, it wants a number. When I record with the actual wheel, that column says "Modulation", which I can't enter by hand.

There HAS to be a more elegant way of doing this. Even if I got that method to work, it's the same as the keyswitch problem, where I can't start playback at the start of the measure because it's preceded by a needed wheel event. 

[jkoseattle]

UPDATE: I the EastWest forums someone set us straight. In Preferences > MIDI, simply uncheck "Zero Controllers When Play Stops" and "MIDI Event Chase on Play" and CW will no longer require a CC reset every time.

[mdiemer]

Yep, that is such a frequent problem that I wonder why it's not that way by default.

You actually can change the number in event list by clicking on it (or hitting enter when it's highlighted), and put in the number you want. You also can change the type of event the same way. Change a note event to a controller event, for example. That's why I had you duplicating a note event, so you can then change the duplicated note event to a CC event. then you have a CC event before the note or series of notes you want to be affected by it.

Edited May 15, 2019 by mdiemer

[devonaire45]

On 5/14/2019 at 10:07 AM, mdiemer said:

The way I do it is in Event List. Go to the very first note in the list, hit insert on your keyboard, which will create a duplicate of that note,  then change the type of event from note to controller. Put in 7 for volume, and set the value to 100. Then, with your cursor on that event, hit insert again, and this time change the CC7 to CC11. Put in 100 for the value.

The CC7 is for a starting value, or modwheel. some people use CC1 for this, it depends on the library. but I have found that 7 works in 90% of cases. The CC11 is for fine adjusting as needed on the fly.

Ok - I now have a controller event.  Where do you change the volume to 7 and "the value" to 100, please?  Also: is this viable for live performance?  I'm trying to get the expression pedal to control leslie speed in a Hammond vst  while I'm playing.  Sometimes I just run out of hands!

[Blogospherianman]

On 5/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, jkoseattle said:

Long time CW user, but just bought a keyboard with a mod wheel and expression pedal. I understand that I can assign them to different effects/channels for each instrument, but I don't understand where/how I do that. The instruments are EastWest Play. Can someone point me to where I assign mod wheel and expression pedal settings?

You’ll want to assign what the pedals are sending via your keyboard first. Sure, you can reassign but if you always want CC11 for expression from the pedal and CC1 for mod from the wheel then  it’s best to do it at the source for consistency.  Most companies use standard CCs so you don’t ‘have to’ use s learn functions or  saving the odd or unassigned CCs for the things like all the other things you can use it for like delay feedback or hall level. You don’t want to loose functionality of one thing to gain another. 

I have multiple controller patches saved in the Master Keyboard which I change to match the setup. VSL, NI, EW.

In East West you just load your patch and then right click any knob or fader and hit midi learn and then wiggle your midi controller. It will then learn whatever CC you previously told your keyboard to send when receiving your pedal or mod input.

 You didn’t mention what the keyboard is. 

Hope that helps! If not, type more. ?

✌️

[Blogospherianman]

 

40 minutes ago, devonaire45 said:

Ok - I now have a controller event.  Where do you change the volume to 7 and "the value" to 100, please?  Also: is this viable for live performance?  I'm trying to get the expression pedal to control leslie speed in a Hammond vst  while I'm playing.  Sometimes I just run out of hands!

You should be using expression to control the swell (volume) of the organ and instead use Mod for the leslie.  I have a pedal in my live setup for Leslie control via Mod CC1.  Also use it to soften the horns while on my piano/string/horns patch.  Separate pedal for expression, then using sliders to attenuate volume CC7separate of the Expression pedal CC11.

No wrong way but some ways can help the flow.

[devonaire45]

Thanks for the response.  I'd still rather use the expression pedal to control the leslie.  If someone could clarify the points in my first post, I'd appreciate it.

[Blogospherianman]

1 hour ago, devonaire45 said:

Thanks for the response.  I'd still rather use the expression pedal to control the leslie.  If someone could clarify the points in my first post, I'd appreciate it.

You can assign your expression pedal to send any CC you want via your keyboard. CC11 expression, CC1 Mod, CC7 Vol, etc

I didn’t mean to sound like you shouldn't use the expression pedal to control the leslie. I meant for you to not use the CC11 as you may want to use that for swell, assigning your expression pedal to say CC1.  Again there’s no wrong way. Plenty of freely assignable CCs to go around.

Whatever CC you use you can assign in your Hammond VST. Which Hammond VST are you using?

Also, what model keyboard are you using?

In my live rig I have one Expression pedal for CC11 (expression) and another Expression pedal for the Leslie control (via CC1).

At home I have 3 Hammond Organs. I added a toe switch (still can use the half moon switch as well) to my 57 B3 for those moments I don’t wanna let go. ?

Edited August 10, 2019 by Blogospherianman

[Christopher Altoft]

This is all very confusing.  I can't hear any effect from my mod wheel at all.  Tried recording then going over the top with the mod wheel, recording with the mod wheel and pitch shift (pitch shift works fine).  I'm still new to cakewalk and need the mod wheel to work for a project.  after I record I can see the effect it should have been recorded but hear nothing.  Please help.

[User 905133]

(1) This is an old thread. (2) It might be confusing because you are reading the results of problem solving over a span of 3 months at a single sitting. (3) Based on (a) your newness to Cakewalk (and possibly MIDI) and (b) the lack of details, it might be better to start a new thread.  Also, I know that there are other threads that address mapping and using MIDI data that might be better for you.  Also, I highly suspect there are video tutorials that might be better for you.

BUT, here goes. I am assuming you understand (1) your MIDI gear (a) hardware and/or (b) soft soft synths, (2) what midi data is and how it is used to communicate, and (3) what CCs are and how to use them, including mapping and routing in general, and that your only issue is how to route MIDI in Cakewalk and how to get CCs from one place to another in Cakewalk.

2 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

I can't hear any effect from my mod wheel at all. 

  As you presumably know, MIDI is data, not sound.  

2 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

Tried recording then going over the top with the mod wheel, recording with the mod wheel and pitch shift (pitch shift works fine). 

Assuming you have an instrument track (which combines audio and midi and is often used for soft synths) and you have successfully recorded MIDI data which produces sound though a soft synth, to me this sounds like you want to record a layer of MIDI data using the mod wheel so that the soft synth responds to the  additional MIDI data as well as what was previously recorded.

Is this close?

2 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

 after I record I can see the effect it should have been recorded but hear nothing.  Please help.

Did you look at the event list to make sure the Wheel data was recorded and if so, was it recorded in the right place?

Old school personal preference (different people have different workflows): When I overdub CC data, I usually use a separate MIDI track, mostly because its easier for me to edit or delete if its not what I want.  To do the CC overdubbing, I point the midi track to the synth (hardware or software).

Since there are newer methods, I will drop out here and let others chime in with other methods.  I hope that some of what I guessed at about what you are doing (whether correct or incorrect) helps.

Edited May 29, 2022 by User 905133
numerous edits trying to construct a meaningful reply given details provided

[Christopher Altoft]

13 hours ago, User 905133 said:

(1) This is an old thread. (2) It might be confusing because you are reading the results of problem solving over a span of 3 months at a single sitting. (3) Based on (a) your newness to Cakewalk (and possibly MIDI) and (b) the lack of details, it might be better to start a new thread.  Also, I know that there are other threads that address mapping and using MIDI data that might be better for you.  Also, I highly suspect there are video tutorials that might be better for you.

BUT, here goes. I am assuming you understand (1) your MIDI gear (a) hardware and/or (b) soft soft synths, (2) what midi data is and how it is used to communicate, and (3) what CCs are and how to use them, including mapping and routing in general, and that your only issue is how to route MIDI in Cakewalk and how to get CCs from one place to another in Cakewalk.

  As you presumably know, MIDI is data, not sound.  

Assuming you have an instrument track (which combines audio and midi and is often used for soft synths) and you have successfully recorded MIDI data which produces sound though a soft synth, to me this sounds like you want to record a layer of MIDI data using the mod wheel so that the soft synth responds to the  additional MIDI data as well as what was previously recorded.

Is this close?

Did you look at the event list to make sure the Wheel data was recorded and if so, was it recorded in the right place?

Old school personal preference (different people have different workflows): When I overdub CC data, I usually use a separate MIDI track, mostly because its easier for me to edit or delete if its not what I want.  To do the CC overdubbing, I point the midi track to the synth (hardware or software).

Since there are newer methods, I will drop out here and let others chime in with other methods.  I hope that some of what I guessed at about what you are doing (whether correct or incorrect) helps.

I'm still new to cakewalk and am trying to record with my midi keyboard through surge (I think surge may be the issue) I tried the mod wheel through TTS yesterday and it works. 

As for events list (which I have seen) there is no CC data on there and I don't know how to change it.

Now I'm also having problems updating cakewalk.  Says there's an update but when I click update it says 0/0 downloaded.  I like this program but its starting to test my patience.

[User 905133]

5 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

I'm still new to cakewalk and am trying to record with my midi keyboard through surge (I think surge may be the issue) I tried the mod wheel through TTS yesterday and it works. 

Thanks for the clarification.  It sounds like you narrowed down the problem. It might be the Surge Patch you are using. I just tried a handful at random. Some use Mod Wheel Data; some don't.  I tried Dan Maurer > Lead > By The Way ... . It responds with what sounds like an overdrive effect.  Each patch designer decides what parameter(s) CC 1 (aka Modulation) affects (or not).

Found another Surge patch that uses the mod wheel: NoiseGeek > FX > Singing Space Saw.  Check the Surge Manual for how to add/route CC1/mod wheel control to a patch where the patch designer hasn't used it (or you want to use it to do something different).  

I decided to teach myself.  The manual has a section under "Sliders and Controls" called "Add Modulation From."  Right clicking on sliders also has MIDI Learn.  So, I took a brass patch, right clicked on F1 in the Filter EG section and moved my Wheel to assign it to that parameter.  If I wanted, I could re-save the patch so it has my tweaks.  

5 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

As for events list (which I have seen) there is no CC data on there and I don't know how to change it.

By default, the Event List shows CC data.  You can filter data types, though.  If you filtered CCs out from the Event List, one way to see them is to right click in the Event List (beneath the header row). Make sure "Controller" has been checked.

If the CCs were not recorded, there could be a number of reasons.   

5 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

Now I'm also having problems updating cakewalk.  Says there's an update but when I click update it says 0/0 downloaded. 

Are you using Bandlab Assistant to update?  Ever since the In-App "Check for Updates" feature was added, it has been super smooth for me: Menu Bar > Help > Check for Updates. I recommend it!

5 hours ago, Christopher Altoft said:

I like this program but its starting to test my patience.

Hang in there.  Cakewalk is quite robust; so there's much to learn.  I started with the MS-DOS version and am still learning features I have never or rarely used. I generally embrace learning new stuff.  If you decide to stick with Cakewalk and you increase your personal knowledge base in byte-size-chunks, much of what seems difficult at first will probably become "second nature."  Hope this helps.

Edited May 30, 2022 by User 905133
many edits to respond to the issues raised one-by-one