8DIO 25 Days of Xmas Sale

[Larry Shelby]

60% off everything and free Dark Prophecy with $100 min. spend after discount 
Free gift changes every 48 hrs

Use code 60DIO

https://8dio.com/

Edited December 1, 2021 by cclarry

[husker]

8 Dio sales = the Waves of orchestral sampling.  

[Larry Shelby]

Right!  Same sale - different name...

[antler]

No WUP though (thank goodness)

[Fleer]

55 minutes ago, antler said:

No WUP though (thank goodness)

Don’t give them ideas!

[kitekrazy1]

3 hours ago, husker said:

8 Dio sales = the Waves of orchestral sampling.  

Eastwest started this long before 8dio,

I don't mind it when it is orchestra libraries. 

BTW I did mention it in an 8dio thread in Vi Control that spending over $200 and get a free library takes away the impulse spending. Maybe they listened.

Edited December 2, 2021 by kitekrazy

[kitekrazy1]

I'm thinking of getting the Claire woodwinds one piece at a time

[Fleer]

That Claire alto flute is mesmerizing.  

[PavlovsCat]

I don't think it's a fair comparison. Waves plugins are actually very sophisticated, clever, generally have good usability  and are well coded. 8Dio string libraries are commonly giant collections of articulations with little concern for good scripting and usability. 

I have Intimate Strings and Deep Solo Cello and Viola and, except for the size and depth of samples, when it comes to playability, they remind me of string sample libraries from twenty years ago that were just these huge collections of articulations that required you to do more editing than playing. I want highly playable libraries with clever scripting and that's definitely not in 8Dio's wheelhouse. I know it's just not me because the more I have talked about it, the more I have heard from others who have the same thoughts. a friend who composes for games, another friend who is a KONTAKT scripting expert who tells me that's why he doesn't bother buying 8Dio, because the scripting is less than an afterthought. Troel's is great at promotion -- a very good hype man -- but the string libraries never deliver on expectations and aren't at the level of what even the smallest string KONTAKT sample developers are putting out. I picked up a Fluffy Audio Viola library for $29USD last week and it makes me never want to bother with using my 8Dio libraries again. While I do like the tone of some of the 8Dio libraries, they're just not libraries you can play without a ton of editing like Fluffy's are.  In the end, that's a deal breaker for me. At least my Waves libraries are very usable -- they deliver on promises. 8Dio just seems more focused on cranking out huge deep sampled libraries with minimal effort put into scripting, which in this day and age is simply below a lot of user expectations, including mine. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by PavlovsCat

[Canopus]

I have a lot of libraries from 8DIO, including the Claire Woodwind bundle mentioned above. I think it’s great. I have only been disappointed once after buying an 8DIO library and that was indeed a waste of $8. I have to admit though that I never ask for other people’s opinion whether a library is good or not. Call me introvert, but I only ask my own ears.

[PavlovsCat]

2 minutes ago, Canopus said:

I have a lot of libraries from 8DIO, including the Claire Woodwind bundle mentioned above. I think it’s great. I have only been disappointed once after buying an 8DIO library and that was indeed a waste of $8. I have to admit though that I never ask for other people’s opinion whether a library is good or not. Call me introvert, but I only ask my own ears.

Today's libraries are often pretty complex with lots of layers, scripting and hopefully a good user interface. Getting other's advice on libraries is invaluable, IMO. "Using your ears" tells you about how a library sounds, not how it is scripted or how it is to play, which is pretty important, especially for complex libraries like string libraries. 

[pseudopop]

2 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

I have Intimate Strings and Deep Solo Cello and Viola and, except for the size and depth of samples, when it comes to playability, they remind me of string sample libraries from twenty years ago that were just these huge collections of articulations that required you to do more editing than playing. I want highly playable libraries with clever scripting and that's definitely not in 8Dio's wheelhouse.

Just to be clear: When you say they are not playable, do you mean that it doesn't sound good when you play them with a keyboard? Or do you mean that you can't make them sound good even after you have the midi notes and tweak them (like you usually need to)?

I rarely record midi. I use notation software and export the midi to my daw, so the first kind of playability is not important to me.

Edited December 2, 2021 by pseudopop

[Canopus]

20 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

Today's libraries are often pretty complex with lots of layers, scripting and hopefully a good user interface. Getting other's advice on libraries is invaluable, IMO. "Using your ears" tells you about how a library sounds, not how it is scripted or how it is to play, which is pretty important, especially for complex libraries like string libraries. 

To me it’s all about the end result, not the way to get there. Oh, well.

[Amicus717]

I have a pretty big selection of 8Dio stuff, mostly bought on steep discounts and big sales (which is how everyone buys everything, nowadays, I think). I do get why their libraries experience a lot of criticism -- they are not the easiest to use, and I agree they seem to emphasize lots of articulations and sample content rather than refinement or simplicity of use. 

But they have their moments. Over the past few years my library collection has really expanded and I've got a lot more options to choose from when revising or expanding my template, but I still have 8Dio patches in there -- even though my current template is bigger and a lot more sophisticated than ever. There is just a certain vibe about some of their stuff, and in select moments it works for me.

The Anthology Strings legatos are a good example. They're not elegant or polished in the least. They're totally over-the-top and more than a bit rough around the edges. You gotta use them really judiciously. But when I want to record a string melody line that totally blows out the schmaltz-o-meter, I turn to the Anthology Strings celli or violins "Legato I" patches. I have yet to find strings that combine the same mix of melodiousness and blunt-force-trauma legato transitions that 8Dio gave to their Anthology stuff. They work really well in those moments, although I'd never use them in any other role. My Spitfire, Cinesamples and Musical Sampling string libraries do most of the heavy lifting. But 8Dio still has a place. 

FWIW, I also find that if I want to make stuff as realistic as possible, I still need to do a lot of note-by-note and line-by-line polishing and editing anyway, regardless of library.  Using the 8Dio stuff doesn't really make that any worse, from my perspective. 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Amicus717

[PavlovsCat]

1 hour ago, pseudopop said:

Just to be clear: When you say they are not playable, do you mean that it doesn't sound good when you play them with a keyboard? Or do you mean that you can't make them sound good even after you have the midi notes and tweak them (like you usually need to)?

I rarely record midi. I use notation software and export the midi to my daw, so the first kind of playability is not important to me.

It takes work to get a very realistic performance from string libraries. 

It's not as simple as just playing them like a piano if you're looking for a truly realistic performance.  Pros who use these libraries for TV, games, trailers, movie scores, etc., do a good deal of editing after playing the parts on the keys, and of course, a composer's workflow is ultra important. The playability in this sense refers to how easily a library performs -- for example, does the library use a lot of scripting and do you find it intuitive for your needs or do you need to use a lot of keyswitching, all sorts of articulations and delve into intensive editing to get a realistic performance? In your case, where you're not playing them, there's still the reality that some libraries sound more realistic than others with your software. But sure, because you don't play them on a keyboard you may have VERY DIFFERENT standards than those who do. But playability is a major factor for the majority of users of KONTAKT sample library buyers, it's a major factor for MOST pros, aspiring pros and  amateurs care and they care a great deal about it -- and I'm among that group. Getting a ultra realistic sounding performance from a string library requires a lot of work -- and if you're very serious, that means midi editing is a necessity --I have literally not seen any serious users of string libraries -- advanced amateur or pro assert that usability isn't important -- I've consulted to many developers of sample libraries, including string and orchestral libraries. But most start with playing the parts on a midi keyboard and desire a very playable library -- and that can be inspiring or having a library that isn't very playable can be the opposite. 

Even if you're using notation software, I'm sure that you'll find certain libraries are vastly easier to attain realistic sounding results than others and scripting and other factors are why.  Pros that use string libraries in finished productions do a lot of editing no matter which libraries they use (and most use a combination of them), but ask any pro if s/he'd prefer a library that's easy and intuitive to play to get the initial parts down and you'll get a resounding yes. Anyhow. Of course, if someone feels that they can do everything by ear and you're only doing music for your own enjoyment it's all subject to your standards. But for those looking for realism, it takes work and playability is a major factor. So sure, Canopus, if you're a casual amateur user and you don't think there's any difference in how various string libraries play and that makes  you happy that's fine. You don't need to argue with more advanced users though that care about usability. If you're satisfied with what you're doing, that's all that matters, but more advanced users do care a great deal about usability and playability, that is a very fundamental fact in the music biz and sample development market. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by PavlovsCat

[PavlovsCat]

36 minutes ago, Amicus717 said:

I have a pretty big selection of 8Dio stuff, mostly bought on steep discounts and big sales (which is how everyone buys everything, nowadays, I think). I do get why their libraries experience a lot of criticism -- they are not the easiest to use, and I agree they seem to emphasize lots of articulations and sample content rather than refinement or simplicity of use. 

But they have their moments. Over the past few years my library collection has really expanded and I've got a lot more options to choose from when revising or expanding my template, but I still have 8Dio patches in there -- even though my current template is bigger and a lot more sophisticated than ever. There is just a certain vibe about some of their stuff, and in select moments it works for me.

The Anthology Strings legatos are a good example. They're not elegant or polished in the least. They're totally over-the-top and more than a bit rough around the edges. You gotta use them really judiciously. But when I want to record a string melody line that totally blows out the schmaltz-o-meter, I turn to the Anthology Strings celli or violins "Legato I" patches. I have yet to find strings that combine the same mix of melodiousness and blunt-force-trauma legato transitions that 8Dio gave to their Anthology stuff. They work really well in those moments, although I'd never use them in any other role. My Spitfire, Cinesamples and Musical Sampling string libraries do most of the heavy lifting. But 8Dio still has a place. 

FWIW, I also find that if I want to make stuff as realistic as possible, I still need to do a lot of note-by-note and line-by-line polishing and editing anyway, regardless of library.  Using the 8Dio stuff doesn't really make that any worse, from my perspective. 

 

It's all subjective, of course. and our workflows are a major piece of this --- how important playability is to us. To those who love midi editing string and orchestral parts, they may love having the motherload of articulations the way 8Dio does them with libraries like Deep Solo Strings. Personally, playability is everything to me. I'm not going to go through and edit things as pros do, I'm creating music for my own enjoyment, but want it to sound good, so if it requires a ton of midi editing -- like 8Dio does (and that's relative to other libraries that have more intuitive scripting that make them very playable -- like Fluffy Audio's libraries that I recently picked up_, I'm out. In my case,  for a number of reasons, including pretty bad tendinitis. But yeah, as I just wrote in my previous post, midi editing is unavoidable if you're looking for a very realistic performance. But I think it's pretty important to feel inspired when playing and when I recently picked up another library that was incredibly more playable that a friend who composes music for games recommended, the difference was incredible. I really don't want to go back to my 8Dio libraries. 

On another level, I clicked on the link in your sig file after reading your post and listened while writing my response and really liked what I heard. You're very talented! Kudos!

Edited December 2, 2021 by PavlovsCat

[pseudopop]

22 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said:

It's not as simple as just playing them like a piano if you're looking for a truly realistic performance. . . . The playability in this sense refers to how easily a library performs -- for example, does the library use a lot of scripting and do you find it intuitive for your needs or do you need to use a lot of keyswitching, all sorts of articulations and delve into intensive editing to get a realistic performance? . . . Even if you're using notation software, I'm sure that you'll find certain libraries are vastly easier to attain realistic sounding results than others and scripting and other factors are why. . . .

I just wanted to understand the terminology you were using so that I could understand what you're saying.

I agree that 8dio string instruments often feel less agile than some other libraries, but I don't regret buying them. Like Amicus717 said they have their own sound which I find suites certain situations better than the more refined libraries, though I only have strings from the Agitato series which I believe many think is one of 8dio's better ones.

In fact, looking at my library it seems I mostly have just vocal and percussion libraries and some exotic instruments from 8dio, all of which I think are quite good for the money I paid for them. So maybe I haven't encountered the issues you mentioned because I haven't used their orchestral libraries so extensively?

Anyway, my biggest issue with 8dio libraries is the long load time.

[Amicus717]

6 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

It's all subjective, of course. and our workflows are a major piece of this --- how important playability is to us. To those who love midi editing string and orchestral parts, they may love having the motherload of articulations the way 8Dio does them with libraries like Deep Solo Strings. Personally, playability is everything to me. I'm not going to go through and edit things as pros do, I'm creating music for my own enjoyment, but want it to sound good, so if it requires a ton of midi editing -- like 8Dio does (and that's relative to other libraries that have more intuitive scripting that make them very playable -- like Fluffy Audio's libraries that I recently picked up_, I'm out. In my case,  for a number of reasons, including pretty bad tendinitis. But yeah, as I just wrote in my previous post, midi editing is unavoidable if you're looking for a very realistic performance. But I think it's pretty important to feel inspired when playing and when I recently picked up another library that was incredibly more playable that a friend who composes music for games recommended, the difference was incredible. I really don't want to go back to my 8Dio libraries. 

On another level, I clicked on the link in your sig file after reading your post and listened while writing my response and really liked what I heard. You're very talented! Kudos!

Thanks, PavlovsCat! Appreciate you listening.

And yeah, I agree about playability. It's really nice to have, if you can get it. I have gotten into the habit of composing fast -- get stuff down at breakneck speed and don't think about it too much, then go back and examine the mess and see if something cool can be created from it. So playability can make a pretty big difference in that situation, and my newer libraries go a long way towards making that work. I'd never use 8Dio in that role.

I think 8Dio creates libraries with so much content, they sometimes stumble by accident onto a patch with a great vibe that you can't find anywhere else.

Their Deep Solo stuff doesn't interest me at all, pretty much for the reasons you mention.

 

 

 

 

[Amicus717]

6 hours ago, pseudopop said:

I agree that 8dio string instruments often feel less agile than some other libraries, but I don't regret buying them. Like Amicus717 said they have their own sound which I find suites certain situations better than the more refined libraries, though I only have strings from the Agitato series which I believe many think is one of 8dio's better ones.

In fact, looking at my library it seems I mostly have just vocal and percussion libraries and some exotic instruments from 8dio, all of which I think are quite good for the money I paid for them. So maybe I haven't encountered the issues you mentioned because I haven't used their orchestral libraries so extensively?

Anyway, my biggest issue with 8dio libraries is the long load time.

I have mine on an M.2 drive, and it helps a lot.

I like their percussion libraries, too. They can be quite useful, although I find them kind of heavy on system resources and only load them up if I need that specific sound. But they're nice to have in the arsenal.