Headphones, Glasses & Hearing Aids

[Paul G]

Hi All.

I'm not sure where this post should go so please move as needed.

Most of my music related listening is done using closed-back, over-ear headphones.  I wear glasses and have become used them while wearing headphones.  Sooner or later, I'm going to need hearing aids and I'm wondering how this will work.  Anyone who has experienced with this combination, I'd love to hear your comments.

What type of phones & aids are  you using?  What works and what doesn't.  Anything on the subject would be welcomed.

TIA

Paul

[henkejs]

Welcome to the club. I use ReSound over-the-ear hearing aids bought at Costco several years ago. Since it's a bother to put them in and take them out all the time, I tend to leave them in when using open-backed headphones that rest lightly on the ears. However, for me it's more comfortable to take them out when using closed back headphones that fit more tightly, especially when I have my glasses on.

I've never done a careful experiment to determine whether the hearing aids actually contribute anything to the sound coming from the headphones so I'm curious too what other people think.

[Tim Smith]

My suggestion would be to see if you can find an EQ curve the audiologist used when they set up your hearing aids, then take the hearing aids out and EQ the master accordingly.I say this because I'm not sure about the effect close proximity will have if using headphones in addition to the likely discomfort involved. You basically have to tune your ears to a flat reference and then tune the headphones for flat EQ if you are critically mixing. Otherwise your ears will fool you about the mix. Headphone mixing also usually requires some kind of calibration like Sonarworks.

[Paul G]

5 hours ago, henkejs said:

Welcome to the club. I use ReSound over-the-ear hearing aids bought at Costco several years ago. Since it's a bother to put them in and take them out all the time, I tend to leave them in when using open-backed headphones that rest lightly on the ears. However, for me it's more comfortable to take them out when using closed back headphones that fit more tightly, especially when I have my glasses on.

I've never done a careful experiment to determine whether the hearing aids actually contribute anything to the sound coming from the headphones so I'm curious too what other people think.

Thanks for your reply.  Does Costco have a hearing department or are these 'off the shelf' hearing aids?

It seems to me that 'over the ear' type of aids would certainly be more uncomfortable when used with glasses and headphones.

Paul

[Paul G]

2 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

My suggestion would be to see if you can find an EQ curve the audiologist used when they set up your hearing aids, then take the hearing aids out and EQ the master accordingly.I say this because I'm not sure about the effect close proximity will have if using headphones in addition to the likely discomfort involved. You basically have to tune your ears to a flat reference and then tune the headphones for flat EQ if you are critically mixing. Otherwise your ears will fool you about the mix. Headphone mixing also usually requires some kind of calibration like Sonarworks.

Thanks for the reply, Tim.  I need to look into the "process" of fitting for hearing aids.  I assumed that they were just a mic and an amp with maybe some filtering.  I'd be concerned that they might feed back while using headphones.  I like your idea though.  If they could identify which frequencies your ears were rolling off, could they  just boost those freq's?

I've been using Sonarworks for years.  Works good.

Paul

[Brian Walton]

2 hours ago, Paul G said:

Thanks for the reply, Tim.  I need to look into the "process" of fitting for hearing aids.  I assumed that they were just a mic and an amp with maybe some filtering.  I'd be concerned that they might feed back while using headphones.  I like your idea though.  If they could identify which frequencies your ears were rolling off, could they  just boost those freq's?

I've been using Sonarworks for years.  Works good.

Paul

I don't have hearing aids but my Dad does.  Feedback is very much an issue with many headphones and hearing aids.

There are a very wide variety in how hearing aids work and feature sets so I'd suggest talking with your Audiologist about your musician needs and expectations.  Many aids are not so much focused on purity of sound and flat response, quite the opposite as they seak to boost signals to make important things inteligable (i.e. speach) and use filtering to get rid of sounds that would be annoyuing or distracting when amplified.  

[henkejs]

2 hours ago, Paul G said:

Thanks for your reply.  Does Costco have a hearing department or are these 'off the shelf' hearing aids?

It seems to me that 'over the ear' type of aids would certainly be more uncomfortable when used with glasses and headphones.

Paul

Many, but not all , Costco stores have a hearing aid department. They sell reasonable quality equipment for less than you would pay in most other places and will assist you in fitting and programming the equipment you buy. They can also help you decide what style of hearing aids are likely to give you the best results.

The kind I have are small and fairly comfortable. I like them because they don't completely block the ear canal and you still get a fair amount of natural sound in the frequencies where your hearing is less impaired. I do have to fiddle with the glasses a little bit to get them to sit right.

[Paul G]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:17 PM, Brian Walton said:

I don't have hearing aids but my Dad does.  Feedback is very much an issue with many headphones and hearing aids.

There are a very wide variety in how hearing aids work and feature sets so I'd suggest talking with your Audiologist about your musician needs and expectations.  Many aids are not so much focused on purity of sound and flat response, quite the opposite as they seak to boost signals to make important things inteligable (i.e. speach) and use filtering to get rid of sounds that would be annoyuing or distracting when amplified.  

Thanks much for the reply, Brian.  Very helpful.

Paul

[Paul G]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:20 PM, henkejs said:

Many, but not all , Costco stores have a hearing aid department. They sell reasonable quality equipment for less than you would pay in most other places and will assist you in fitting and programming the equipment you buy. They can also help you decide what style of hearing aids are likely to give you the best results.

The kind I have are small and fairly comfortable. I like them because they don't completely block the ear canal and you still get a fair amount of natural sound in the frequencies where your hearing is less impaired. I do have to fiddle with the glasses a little bit to get them to sit right.

Thanks for the reply and the information.

I'd be concerned that the "in-ear" type of aids could easily fall out if you were, say, mowing the lawn.  lol

Paul

[Tim Smith]

On 11/30/2021 at 5:01 PM, Paul G said:

Thanks for the reply, Tim.  I need to look into the "process" of fitting for hearing aids.  I assumed that they were just a mic and an amp with maybe some filtering.  I'd be concerned that they might feed back while using headphones.  I like your idea though.  If they could identify which frequencies your ears were rolling off, could they  just boost those freq's?

I've been using Sonarworks for years.  Works good.

Paul

Hi Paul,

As a person who was sincerely trying to offer the best info I possibly could based on what I know. I still pulled that answer out of my butt so to speak. I hope the concept at least helped some.

I simply see the ear as a pickup device which in your case is lacking in some areas and needs correction. Whether the correction is in two steps: Hearing aid>Headphone correction........................or one step. Headphone correction for flat response based on your ears. To me this would be the most comfortable.

In any case I'm not sure how we could get away from two curves. Certain frequencies may have been especially hyped in the hearing aids and they likely were going for intelligibility as a goal over a flat response. ....and I hate to say it- if certain parts of the ear are 'dead' to certain frequencies, then nothing is going to help that.

It's easy to suggest having this info but probably much more difficult to accurately obtain it, and this is such an individual thing that one case won't be like another. I hate to suggest augmenting with visual representations of the audio like a spectrograph, but maybe that would be helpful?

The thing is you won't know if you made a good mix. You will only know you made a mix that sounds good to you. The real proof is to see how it sounds to others who you totally trust after you think you have it ironed out.

Good luck!

[Paul G]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:47 PM, Tim Smith said:

Hi Paul,

As a person who was sincerely trying to offer the best info I possibly could based on what I know. I still pulled that answer out of my butt so to speak. I hope the concept at least helped some.

I simply see the ear as a pickup device which in your case is lacking in some areas and needs correction. Whether the correction is in two steps: Hearing aid>Headphone correction........................or one step. Headphone correction for flat response based on your ears. To me this would be the most comfortable.

In any case I'm not sure how we could get away from two curves. Certain frequencies may have been especially hyped in the hearing aids and they likely were going for intelligibility as a goal over a flat response. ....and I hate to say it- if certain parts of the ear are 'dead' to certain frequencies, then nothing is going to help that.

It's easy to suggest having this info but probably much more difficult to accurately obtain it, and this is such an individual thing that one case won't be like another. I hate to suggest augmenting with visual representations of the audio like a spectrograph, but maybe that would be helpful?

The thing is you won't know if you made a good mix. You will only know you made a mix that sounds good to you. The real proof is to see how it sounds to others who you totally trust after you think you have it ironed out.

Good luck!

Thanks Tim.  I'll know more when I actually get some hearing aids.  I think you're right.  The hearing aids I  would need would likely be designed to hype frequencies that increase intelligibility vs. flat response so I'd probably not wear them while working on music.  If that's the direction I go, that solves the issue of wearing aids, glasses and headphones.  I've worn glasses since I was in my 40's so I've overcome the headphone and glasses issues.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Paul