Bounce to Track Output different than Master Bus Output

[Sailor55]

I'm having a weird problem where the output from my project's master bus is not what I get when I bounce the "entire mix" to a track . Both channels are hard limited (as shown) on  the master bus meter but only the left channel is limited in the mix. Never seen this before. I've tried many things but the result is always consistent.

Running 2021.11.  Any ideas?

 

 

[57Gregy]

I would check to see if I had a track(s) going straight to the Main out, thus bypassing the Master and the limiter.
Check your Track Manager (H) for any hidden tracks.

I assume while playing the project in Cakewalk that the audio behaves as expected?

[John Vere]

Yes, Obviously a routing issue like a aux track or something bypassing the master buss. Play the song and mute the master buss. 

[Andres Medina]

Also check the "Source" in the export screen: double check that the right options are enabled.

[Sailor55]

Thanks for the replies. I tried muting the master bus, but there seems to be nothing bypassing it. I had originally 5 tracks. Rhythm Guitar, Lead Guitar, Bass (midi), Drums(midi) and a Vocal.  I've narrowed the problem down the drum track (Addictive Drums 2). With all effects in the project disabled, and all other tracks muted, the drum track peaks at -7.9 dB in both of the stereo channels. That is can be seen on both the drum track and on the master bus.

But... after "bouncing to track" (entire mix) the resultant track  (which is now only drums) peaks at -7.9 in the left channel, but -7.3 in the right channel. It is happening on snare shots. Actually, on the very first one and every one thereafter. It seems the mix down is adding 0.6 dB of volume  to the right channel whenever it encounters a snare shot. Very odd.

 

[John Vere]

Snares need compression to keep them on top but not peaking. There’s one built in to AD you can try but I tend to create 4 outputs for it and 1- kick 2- snare- 3- cymbals 4- every thing else. You can have all 12 outputs but 4 works better for me. 
I then use the pro channel EQ and the PC 76 compressor for each output 

[Sailor55]

John Vere, I appreciate your suggestions regarding snare compression but this simple fact remains: What is happening on the master bus does not get duplicated when bouncing the "entire mix" to a track. That should not happen. I have completely cured the problem by checking the "render in real time" box.  Then there is no extra 0.6 dB in the right channel. Granted, it takes longer to mix down, but it actually work correctly. This observation is completely consistent over many tries.

I'm about ready to declare this a bug.

[Andres Medina]

I agree, it doesn't seem to be related to compression, as the problem arises only after bouncing, and it should duplicate the exact same levels pre bounce and after bounce.

I had a similar problem when exporting: the exported mix was louder that the one I heard. It turned out to be my fault: I use two outputs - one for the mix an another one for the speakers: I had both enabled on exporting, so the audio was duplicated. At first I blamed CW of course  

That's why I suggest you check througfully the whole signal flow from AD2... but the "render in real time" working fine confuses me -

[Sailor55]

I found two things confusing: Why does the extra 0.6 dB only occur in the right channel? And why does "render in real time" fix it? As I said, I've tried it both ways many times and the results are perfectly consistent. I can think of only two possibilities: This is a problem specific only to my DAW and only under specific circumstances, or... This is a bug.  If it is a bug, it's fortunately one that very rarely manifests itself. I've never noticed it in dozens of other projects.

I usually only bounce entire mixes to a track at the end of a project, but in future, I will be doing it in real time when I must be confident of the result. Perhaps someone could shed light on why the "real time render" option exists in the first place. Anyway, thanks to everyone who commented. I hesitate to update this thread to "solved". But there does seem to be a usable workaround. - Dan

[Clovis Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Sailor55 said:

shed light on why the "real time render" option exists in the first place

It's for when one's setup is integrated with outboard hardware and running through a mixing console.

[Lord Tim]

Some synths (and plugins, but usually synths) really don't like faster than realtime bounces too, so the option is there if something misbehaves. This might actually be the cause of the issue here - something inside your synth is "hearing stuff" differently when it's not played in realtime. I personally haven't experienced that with AD2 but it's certainly not out of the question.

[Andres Medina]

I use Addictive Drums 2.

Here are 2 little videos showing the meters in 2 different scenarios:

Video 1: Meters of the AD2 drums while playing.

Video 2: Meters of Master Bus reproducing the audio file created using bounce to track.

In my system, they are exact copies, there is no increment in volume.

BDW, I had problems with AD2 when working from Track Templates created in earlier versions of CW.  Got noises and clicks (even crashes) whenever I tried to edit the AD2 data in PRV. All that went away when I recreated the track template from scratch and reloaded. weird!

Hope it helps to go to the bottom of this -