Will M-audio projectMIX work with Cakewalk by Bandlab?

[Wojtek Stecyszyn]

Hi

I know that M-audio projectMIX was compatible with old Sonar. I have one, but before I buy needed firewire cable I want to be sure that it will work also with Cakewalk. Anyone tried it?

 

[Wojtek Stecyszyn]

Ok, so I have bought cable I have connected M-Audio on Sonar mode with my laptop and tada! It works just fine!

[Rick de la Fuente]

Hi!!! i´m on the same path... are you using mac or pc?   what version of Operating system you have? did you install any driver?  hope you can help thanks in advance

[Wojtek Stecyszyn]

Hi.

Pc Win7 

My friend had this MAudio console connected to his mac as well.

Driver - FireWire installer 6.0.4  Driver ( from net)

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

[OutrageProductions]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:16 AM, Wojtek Stecyszyn said:

Hi

I know that M-audio projectMIX was compatible with old Sonar. I have one, but before I buy needed firewire cable I want to be sure that it will work also with Cakewalk. Anyone tried it?

 

I have been using the ProjectMix since 2004 on all consequent versions of Sonar through CbB without any problems. Make sure that your FW card/port is driven by a Texas Instruments chipset. I am using the old Windows Vista driver 5.10.0.5061 (seems to be the most stable on my rig) and have only one caveat: occasionally CbB will lock up/freeze/crash (for reasons that are too numerous to detail here, I've tracked all of them!) and stay hung in the RAM as shown in Task Manager, and won't quit.
I have determined that it is a hang in the driver, but there are a couple of solutions that consistently work for me;

1. Use RamMap to flush the Standby set and the Working sets.
or
2. Power cycle the ProjectMix (which is on 24/7 in my studio) and the app hang disappears.
or
3. Go get a cupper and wait for exactly 7 minutes for it to flush by itself.
or
4. Warm reboot the computer.

 

Just warning you that there will be the occasional, albeit rare, hang, and trust me... there is nothing else that can be done with the driver, unless someone wants to waste the time writing a new one. In which case, it would be cool if they would re-implement the MIDI Control Surface API for it too. (LIke THAT will ever happen!)
 

[EpluribusUnum]

I realize this is an old thread but I have some questions for any of you who are successfully using the Projectmix on Win10.  

Are you able to have windows sounds AND ASIO work together?  

I have several firewire cards with TI chips.

In general, if I use the TI driver, Windows sounds work but no ASIO.  If I use the legacy driver, ASIO works but no Windows sounds.  Strange.  

Obviously ASIO is the higher priority, but it would be nice if they could both work.  

Please let me know what you are experiencing.

Edited September 6, 2023 by EpluribusUnum

[OutrageProductions]

I'll chime back in again on this;

As in previous post on this thread, I have ProjectMix working (still!) on Win10 with Win7 drivers in compatibility mode. ASIO all the way. RT latency at 10.4 milliseconds.

I have Win system sounds, Skype, Zoom, OBC, Chrome, YouToob, Cakewalk, Nuendo, Cubase, and my video edit sled all going through it with no issues.

I select the hardware outputs in the Windows Sound module.

Been doin' it this way since 2005.

Edited September 6, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[EpluribusUnum]

Thanks so much for your reply.

As a baseline test, I booted into Win7 and everything worked flawlessly with the legacy firewire driver.

I went back to Win10, uninstalled the ProjectMix driver and reinstalled it in Win7 compatibility mode. I don't recall if I did that originally.  I also found the control panel exe (MAFWCpl.exe) and set it to run in Win7 compatibility mode.   Now both ASIO and Windows  sounds work in Win10 with the Legacy firewire driver with one exception:  If I open a CbB project  in 44.1K, windows system sounds stop working.  After working in the CbB, I have to go back to the ProjectMix control panel and set the sample rate back to 48K.  After that windows sounds work again.  I suppose that is acceptable, but I'm not sure why this is happening.  Windows sounds should play at 44.1K.  It could be a problem if I have to get sound from a browser or another app while using a DAW. 

A few questions for you, if you don't mind:

1. Are you still using the Vista driver, 5.10.0.5061?  If so, are you still getting crashes?

2. Which firewire driver are you using, TI or legacy?

3. Are Windows system sounds working simultaneously with CbB?

4. Which ProjectMix output are you using for Windows system sounds?

5. What sample rate? 

Sorry, to inundate  you with questions.  I would really appreciate it if you could fill me on these things.

Thanks again.

 

[OutrageProductions]

1. YES,  5.10.0.5061 (all of my crashes are due to the fact that I know the software so freakin' well that I can operate it faster than it can respond, and so I occasionally outrun the keyboard input buffer. When it crashes that way (maybe twice a month, and I work on it 6 hours everyday) I just take my own advice and go get a fresh cupper...

2. I have an old Belkin 3 output 1394 TI chipset card running the MS driver 10.0.19041.1 (class compliant)

3. Yes, tho I have most of them muted (startup active, network ID active, mouse cliks/errors/et al muted)

4. I run all of them through 3/4 most of the time which is my headphone out from PM, also have Nearfield mons out of 1/2 just by swapping mutes in CbB. Can also fairly easily switch to my 5.1 Surround rig in CbB by switching the HW output mutes to my ADAT outputs.

5. EVERYTHING is running at 48k/24b [Windows, YT, Browsers, VB Audio Voicemeeter (for Skype/OBS/Zoom, etc.]

Here I have the faders linked and group muted. I switch from headphones to nearfields to Surround mains just by Mute/UnMute. Levels are controlled by and external surround monitor controller that I designed and built.

I also have my TV running in to ANA 7/8 and directly out to 1/2 (nearfields), but that is just for background noise when I'm editing.

I have the transport functions available on the PM, but, alas, they eliminated the software and driver for the entire MIDI control surface functions when Vista when bye-bye. Sad. But the faders/rotary/monitor levels work, and everything from Locate and below is functioning. But the Encoder Operations section, which was handy when a complete MIDI CS are just pretty to look at now...

Edited September 7, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[EpluribusUnum]

Wow, thanks so much for such a thorough response!  This is extremely helpful.

After spending the whole day yesterday doing tests, I think I have a pretty reliable setup.  Right now, the only major issue I need to work out is if I open a project that was recorded at 44.1k.  This seems to throw off windows system sounds.  I'm still working on this.  It seems like the "Suspend Audio Engine When Cakewalk is Not in focus" setting should alleviate this but it doesn't seem to help.  The same for the Windows setting "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device".  I'll keep experimenting.  I do have Voicemeeter installed and that might be another option.

I have quite a bit of midi/control surface functionality within CbB.  It's too bad you have to sacrifice so much of this to use the Vista driver.  One thing that seems strange in my case is the 'Sel' buttons don't select tracks.  It seems like this should work.

Is it safe to assume the PC you're using is quite old?  I'm running a 10 year old Dell laptop with a 4th gen i7 processor with 32gb of ram.  At the time it was cutting edge but far from it now.  I plan to drive this thing until the wheels fall off.   

[OutrageProductions]

My CPU/MOBO is only 18 months old, my SSD's are about 2 years old (2Tb each - times 4), so it's not an old computer by any means.
I'm running an i9k processor at 3.4Ghz, 64Gb ram, 32Gb GPU ram, two GPU cards, quad video monitors. I update the CPU and MOBO about every 3 years.

M-Audio actually discontinued the CS support software at the end of XP, and it wouldn't load at all from Vista onwards.
I have all functions of the channel strip; encoders, SEL, REC, SOLO, MUTE, and moving touch faders.

The CS software (under XP) had the ability to transform the surface into a full DAW controller - plugins, editing, etc.  Frankly, I don't miss that part too much.

But the transport controls, scrub, window zoom functions, locate to markers, set and arm loops, etc. are all very handy at my left hand while I track-ball with my right hand. There was some tweaking that I had to do to the standard Mackie Control Surface API tho.

Can't help you with the 44.1 sample rate thingy. I haven't done anything other than 48k/24b (most of my job is scoring to film/video) for over 20 years.

The ProjectMIx was a very unique animal, and I love it. However... being in use 24/7/365, I'm on my third power supply since I bought it in 2003.

Edited September 8, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[EpluribusUnum]

I'm a bit intrigued why the Vista driver works better on your machine than the Win7 driver, but you obviously know what you're doing so I won't question it.

Is the CS support software you are referring to the "MIDI Configuration Panel" which M-Audio removed from their site?

I suspected from the pic of your external surround monitor that you aren't a mere mortal.  LOL.  What was involved with editing the Mackie API?  Is that high level programming?

Any ideas why the 'Sel' buttons aren't selecting tracks in my case?  Is that one of the things you had to tweak in the API?  Is your PM in Sonar mode?

Not too worried about the 44.1 thing.  Most everything I do is 48k or higher.  

Funny you mention the power supply.  Mine just died over the weekend.   It still passes 9V but won't power anything that draws a lot of current.  Glad to find out it was just the power supply and nothing internal to the PM.  I agree, this is a super cool machine and I'm glad I can still use it.

[OutrageProductions]

I just found that the 5.10 Vista driver was more stable and less glitchy than the 6.0.2 and later versions. It took a lot of patience troubleshooting that, and I haven't messed with it for a decade.

The CS  package would turn the entire desk into a MIDI controller with faders assignable to plugin knobs or CC values, etc. It was cool with SONAR 7 and XP, but dems da breaks.

Use the Mackie Control Surface CP and check the "handshake" setting. In SONAR mode the desk requires that to be set a certain way, and I don't recall the deets.

EDIT: in the ACT module of the Tool Bar, choose the Mackie Control surface, edit it to reflect the following:

Mine is set so that the jog wheel moves fwd/bak by measures, the FF/REW buttons move fwd/bak by beats. Quite handy.

Edited September 8, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[EpluribusUnum]

This is great!

I had no idea that configuration panel even existed.  Voila! my Sel buttons work!  Thanks so much pointing this out.  Fantastic.

I really like your jog wheel & transport settings.  Great idea.

I'm thinking about experimenting with the Vista driver since you're having such good luck with it.  While things seem pretty stable with the Win7 driver, fairly often the PM won't pass audio after booting into Win10 and will screech like drenched cats at deafening levels until I play around with the control panel.  This doesn't happen every time but it happens often enough.  Usually toggling the sync source solves that problem.

If you don't mind, a couple more minor questions. 

    Do you know if it's possible to get the LCD meters to work?

    When you click the 'ASIO Panel' button in Driver Settings, does it open your PM control panel? 

Thanks again

[OutrageProductions]

56 minutes ago, EpluribusUnum said:

 Do you know if it's possible to get the LCD meters to work?

No. Never had any success with those.

 

56 minutes ago, EpluribusUnum said:

When you click the 'ASIO Panel' button in Driver Settings, does it open your PM control panel?

That quit working for me somewhere between X2 & CbB, so I just made a Win shortcut to a corner of one of my monitors, but I rarely ever change my configuration in there. Sometimes it's useful to check signal flow if I inadvertently screw something up in VoiceMeeter and it's not immediately obvious.

However, the ASIO latency slider in CbB Prefs operates perfectly & reports accurately, so... no issues. 

re: PM won't pass audio after booting into Win10 and will screech;  

I found that with the 6.0.x drivers. Also my ADAT I/O is running on word clock, hence the PM is running on WC, hence CbB is clocking to the PM audio input and is also referencing WC.

Edited September 9, 2023 by OutrageProductions

[EpluribusUnum]

The ASIO control panel not opening isn't a big deal at all, it just seems odd that Cakewalk (or any other DAW) can't find it.  I mainly wanted to be sure it wasn't unique to me. 

Just curious, how is your LCD display looking after 20 years of 24/7/365 on time?  If it still looks good, that would be remarkable!

I did a lot of work with the PM over the weekend and was running into some driver issues.  I decided to look into the driver you're using.  I seem to be misunderstanding which one that is exactly.  Previously in the thread, you said you're using the "old Windows Vista driver 5.10.0.5061" and that you had problems with the 6.0.x drivers. 

On the M-Audio website, there is no 5.10.0.5061 driver offered for Windows Vista.  5.10.0.5061 appears to be the latest Win 7 driver and it's the one I'm currently using.   Also, it is part of the 6.0.4 installer. 

Is it possible you meant 5.10.00.5055v2?  This seems to be the only non 6.0.x driver offered for Vista.

Any chance you could set me straight on this?

Thanks again.