Is there a way for trim volume automation?

[Michael Zagas]

I moved from reaper to cakewalk as I prefer the workflow..

 

In Reaper there was 'Trim volume' which I used for adjusting volume of parts after doing volume automation.

 

Is the same thing in cakewalk?

[Byron Dickens]

Look at the very top of the mixer strips.

 

However, that is not something you should ever have to automate. In fact, it is rare that you should ever have to touch at all. All of your volume automation should be done with the channel faders.

[Craig Anderton]

There are several ways to do this. 

8 hours ago, Michael Zagas said:

I moved from reaper to cakewalk as I prefer the workflow.

In Reaper there was 'Trim volume' which I used for adjusting volume of parts after doing volume automation.

I assume your issue is that the automation moves are correct, but you want to raise the level of all the automation up or down. If that's the case, Cakewalk has several options.

Offset mode is so my favorite. In Offset mode, each fader essentially becomes a ‘master’ to control the automation (note that offset mode works for all automation, not just volume). However, as soon as you’ve entered the appropriate Offset amount, I recommend that you immediately exit Offset mode and return to standard automation. Offset mode should be something you get into, make your level tweak, and then exit quickly. Otherwise you may accidentally do offset moves instead of level moves.

However, if you want to offset the actual automation envelope as it appears in track view (not just add a virtual offset in Offset mode), there’s a way to do that too:

1. Select the Smart Tool and the track with the automation you want to edit.

2. Set the track’s Edit Filter to Automation, then choose the automated parameter you want to offset (we’ll assume for now that automation lanes are hidden and you're working on the clip itself).

3. Drag the Smart Tool across the section of automation you want to offset in the track itself (or, because the track should still be selected, you can also drag across the timeline to select the automation).

4. Hover the Smart Tool over a clip handle, or over an empty space in the track on the same horizontal plane as the clip handle. The cursor turns into a line with up and down arrows, called the Trim Cursor.

5. Click and drag up to offset the automation upward, or drag down to offset the automation downward. Note that when you release the mouse, the automation is deselected to make sure you don’t accidentally vary it any further, so if you want to do more editing you’ll need to re-select the automation.

You can also offset multiple envelopes by the same amount: select any of the existing track automation in the Edit Filter, then unfold any automation lanes you want to offset and follow the same procedure as above. With multiple envelopes, you’ll probably find that dragging in the timeline will be the fastest way to select a region of automation. Note that if automation exists in a lane that is not unfolded, it won’t be edited.

You can also edit automation in individual automation lanes. Select the automation in only that lane, hover the cursor just below the top of the lane until it appears as the offset cursor, then drag up or down as described previously.

[Jacques Boileau]

These are great ideas. I never knew about Offset mode, l'll have to look it up!

A way I do it, which has its drawbacks but works. When I draw the automation, I use the volume of the last plugin of my fx chain instead of the volume fader for automation. That way it leaves the volume fader for overall volume adjustment. 

I never tried it, but I assume you could still do it by copying your current automation lane to a new one controlling the output volume of a plugin.

A big drawback of this method: you don't see the fader's movement anymore....

[Myriad Rocker]

I may be doing it the "wrong" way, but I have always just used track automation and then controlled my overall volume on the buss.

[David Baay]

6 hours ago, Myriad Rocker said:

I may be doing it the "wrong" way, but I have always just used track automation and then controlled my overall volume on the buss.

That works, too, but not every track is going to have a dedicated bus where you can do that. And if the track has any post-fader sends, you're generally going to want the  level of the track to be right at the output. Offset mode is the quick, easy and recommended way. of doing this.

Incidentally, you can tell you're in offset mode because all the widgets will have a '+' in them. But it's easy to overlook in the heat of battle which is why users sometimes get in trouble by inadvertently enabling Offset mode (more so when 'O' was the default shortcut).

[Rickddd]

19 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

There are several ways to do this. 

I assume your issue is that the automation moves are correct, but you want to raise the level of all the automation up or down. If that's the case, Cakewalk has several options.

 

Craig... I was very interested in your post... I have always had a frustration doing that same thing because I would always nudge the automation track ahead or behind in time. Even if just a little it can sometimes cause issues for me.... so I was following your instructions and drum roll... discovered that if I held down the shift key (left) when I drag the automation it stays exact in terms of time placement. I can't tell you how much of a pain in the A%$% this has always been for me. 

I'm free!!!! Free!!!!!!!  Yeah!!!!!!

Rick

[Myriad Rocker]

8 hours ago, David Baay said:

That works, too, but not every track is going to have a dedicated bus where you can do that. And if the track has any post-fader sends, you're generally going to want the  level of the track to be right at the output. Offset mode is the quick, easy and recommended way. of doing this.

Incidentally, you can tell you're in offset mode because all the widgets will have a '+' in them. But it's easy to overlook in the heat of battle which is why users sometimes get in trouble by inadvertently enabling Offset mode (more so when 'O' was the default shortcut).

Yeah, I've used that.  I didn't know it was called offset, but I've moved the entire automation line up and down before.  But that function is more the bane of my existence than anything.  It does it when I'm just trying to move a single node around.  So you have to be really precise where you put your mouse cursor.  If I'm making small changes and cruising along and it grabs the entire line instead of just that node, it's a real buzz kill.  And frustrating.  Maybe I'm using it wrong.  But that is my experience.

[David Baay]

As Craig noted, Offset mode works 'under the covers', and will not affect the displayed position or dB values of your automation envelope. Moving the whole envelope up and down is an alternate way of dealing with the  problem. I don't know of a shortcut or gesture that would inadvertently select and entire envelope other than clicking the track number to select the whole track with the Edit Filter set to the envelope.

[Myriad Rocker]

59 minutes ago, David Baay said:

As Craig noted, Offset mode works 'under the covers', and will not affect the displayed position or dB values of your automation envelope. Moving the whole envelope up and down is an alternate way of dealing with the  problem. I don't know of a shortcut or gesture that would inadvertently select and entire envelope other than clicking the track number to select the whole track with the Edit Filter set to the envelope.

Then I suppose I don't know what an offset is.  There's much about Cakewalk I don't know.  But on your comment about moving the entire automation envelope, it happens to me constantly.  I don't know what to say.  I go to grab a node by clicking on the dot and it selects either the entire line or a group of lines and starts moving.  I have to hover until I see the "dot" telling me I'm going to get the node only and then click.  I don't know how else to explain it, but that's what happens to me.  Maybe I have a setting checked somewhere, but to me...the smart tool isn't so smart.  But I'm derailing the original topic here a bit, so.

[David Baay]

2 hours ago, Myriad Rocker said:

Then I suppose I don't know what an offset is.

There's a button for it in the Mix Module in the Control Bar. 'I' in this image:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Automation.13.html

[orhor]

It would be great, if there was an option to visually differentiate between those two modes by colors of UI. Those little + signs are easy to overlook.