Opinion on My Master with Ozone9

[Marcello]

Hi guys!

I know you might have already listened to some master tests I did, but after some time working with Ozone9 I think I have reached a decent master now, what do you think about it?

Please tell me if for you is too compressed or needs some compression, if the EQ sounds ok to you, and how's the dynamic and the separation of the instruments, the stereo field etc..

I know the volume is pretty high, I did it as it would be for a CD/Vinyl and not for streaming websites, I might make another version with less LUFS for Spotify and stuff, for now I'm interested about the audio quality.

Here's the link, please notice the first part is more quiet then at the end it explodes with distorted guitars.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/115FzjRXH4Hl-t63LxQv5ZdHnecfZZN32/view?usp=sharing

 

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Marcello]

This is the compressor

 

This is the limiter

[Hidden Symmetry]

The eq balance isn't in general bad.  ( although to my ears the D note on bass is swallowing up the low end / kick.)

The problem for my ears is the mix is squashed. The mids + hf  freqs. are badly distorted. Sounds like it's around -6/7 LFKS.

 

[Marcello]

3 minutes ago, Hidden Symmetry said:

The eq balance isn't in general bad.  ( although to my ears the D note on bass is swallowing up the low end / kick.)

The problem for my ears is the mix is squashed. The mids + hf  freqs. are badly distorted. Sounds like it's around -6/7 LFKS.

 

Thanks!

So maybe I should high pass only the bass in the mix? I can actually hear the kick pretty ok from my speakers and headphones.

What do you mean with squashed? too compressed? too high in volume and gets distorted?

That might be too high, the problem I'm having is that basically when I drag the Limiter Threshold down to raise the volume, I can see that when the drums and bass starts, I see the True Peak and trashold line (in blue) doing some up and downs, I have set the volume at the same audible level of my reference track but despite this if I use the "learn threshold button" to stay at -14 LUFS as recommended for Spotify, it will move the thrashold at -2.7 db! it sounds incredibly low! comparing it with the reference track you can hear a huge difference in volume!!

If I set the "Learn Thrashold" button this is the situation on my limiter:

 

Too freaking low! So if I move down the thrashold bar to increase the volume, the situation will be like this, So my question is how do I keep a high volume without all that gain coming out??:

 

[altbl]

Yeah, you're squashing the mix, look at the waveform. Try isolating the lo-mid, mid & hf freqs areas & you should easily hear the distortion.

I would high pass on the bass guitar track, not the whole mix. Also try using limiters &/or clippers on individual tracks, 2 bus mix & master. Using them in small increments can raise the apparent volume without destroying the signals so much.

Edited July 31, 2021 by HSM

[Marcello]

34 minutes ago, Hidden Symmetry said:

The eq balance isn't in general bad.  ( although to my ears the D note on bass is swallowing up the low end / kick.)

The problem for my ears is the mix is squashed. The mids + hf  freqs. are badly distorted. Sounds like it's around -6/7 LFKS.

 

Ah and by the way it is at -6 LUFS, but the thing is also the reference tracks I'm using are at -6 LUFS, and I downloaded the -flac format version (high def) of the songs so that's how it should be mastered on their albums! The more I dig in the more I'm getting confused to be honest.

I know that I should keep the track at -14 LUFS, but if I do (using Lean Threshold) my track sounds incredibly low! Much more then the reference track I'm using.

At the same time if I measure the reference tracks they are not at -14 but at -6 LUFS! So what's wrong with this?? 

[Marcello]

3 minutes ago, HSM said:

Yeah, you're squashing the mix, look at the waveform. Try isolating the lo-mid, mid & hf freqs areas & you should easily hear the distortion.

I would high pass on the bass guitar track, not the whole mix. Also try using limiters &/or clippers on individual tracks, 2 bus mix & master. Using them in small increments can raise the apparent volume without destroying the signals so much.

ok so basically I should put a limiter on the drums track as well?  I didn't put any limiter on my tracks! I know is not really recommended to place limiters on limiters everywhere.

 

[altbl]

2 minutes ago, Marcello said:

ok so basically I should put a limiter on the drums track as well?  I didn't put any limiter on my tracks! I know is not really recommended to place limiters on limiters everywhere.

 

Who told you that?  anything to get your mix the way you want it is 'Legal". Comps, limiters & clippers are often used on drums, vocals, guitars , synths & bass if needed.

[jack c.]

compression at the end a good thing.sounds real pro.jack c.

[Marcello]

2 hours ago, jack c. said:

compression at the end a good thing.sounds real pro.jack c.

isn't it too sqashed?

[Marcello]

3 hours ago, HSM said:

Who told you that?  anything to get your mix the way you want it is 'Legal". Comps, limiters & clippers are often used on drums, vocals, guitars , synths & bass if needed.

Thing is, this is a snake that bite its tail, the limiter will turn down the volume, at least that'swhat happens when i put down the threshold fader, , so of course it won't be pushed and sqashed, it wont  sound loud at all, so if i place a limiter on the drums it will turn down drums volume, so I will have to rebalance the other instruments accordingly. am i wrong ? my goal is not to turn the volume down but maintain it loud without getting squashed and distorted

Edited July 26, 2021 by Marcello

[Hidden Symmetry]

On 7/26/2021 at 4:57 PM, Marcello said:

Thing is, this is a snake that bite its tail, the limiter will turn down the volume, at least that'swhat happens when i put down the threshold fader, , so of course it won't be pushed and sqashed, it wont  sound loud at all, so if i place a limiter on the drums it will turn down drums volume, so I will have to rebalance the other instruments accordingly. am i wrong ? my goal is not to turn the volume down but maintain it loud without getting squashed and distorted

You want a very loud -6 LUFS master so first try using a clipper or a limiter (along with saturation) to get rid of transients & overshoots on your tracks ( like high transient snares.)

Limiters & clippers ( & comps) can also be useful if you only want to shave off a few db's of peaks. You'll have to use your ears to hear which works better or which one is more transparent or the desired effect.

This will help make your mixes denser &  louder but do it in the mixing stage, not at the end.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Hidden Symmetry

[Marcello]

9 hours ago, Hidden Symmetry said:

You want a loud -6 LUFS master so first try using a clipper or a limiter (along with saturation) to get rid of transients & overshoots on your tracks ( like high transient snares.)

Limiters & clippers ( & comps) can also be useful if you only want to shave off a few db's of peaks. You'll have to use your ears to hear which works better or which one is more transparent or the desired effect.

This will help make your mixes denser &  louder but do it in the mixing stage, not at the end.

I don't really know this genre. I'd try to get help by other artists or producers  that are doing this type of music & who are more knowledgeable than myself. I'm sure there's all types of tricks & tips out there.

 Also don't get too hung up the -14 LUFS thing. If you want or like them loud by all means go for it!

Thanks for the tips. I might do 2 versions a louder one at -6 lufs for cd, vinyl, and another one at -14 lufs for spotify.

I will experiment by placing a limiter on the drums track.

do you recommend a free limiter plugin that also shows you the waveform?

[mark skinner]

First off Cool song and playing ! One thing to note is If you're using the "learn threshold" feature with true peak turned on  and running it from the start to the very end of the song before turning learn off , If it sets the threshold at -2.7 for a -14 lufs song you don't have much headroom going in for mastering . Especially a Loud song.  It's also helpful for me to keep  "burn" and "stream" folders depending on what I want to do with finished songs.   Enjoyed it ..  mark   

[Marcello]

2 minutes ago, mark skinner said:

First off Cool song and playing ! One thing to note is If you're using the "learn threshold" feature with true peak turned on  and running it from the start to the very end of the song before turning learn off , If it sets the threshold at -2.7 for a -14 lufs song you don't have much headroom going in for mastering . Especially a Loud song.  It's also helpful for me to keep  "burn" and "stream" folders depending on what I want to do with finished songs.   Enjoyed it ..  mark   

mm ok, do you mean the mix might be too loud?  SHould I export the mix with lower volume? COnsider my mix was around -6db

[Hidden Symmetry]

7 hours ago, Marcello said:

Thanks for the tips. I might do 2 versions a louder one at -6 lufs for cd, vinyl, and another one at -14 lufs for spotify.

I will experiment by placing a limiter on the drums track.

do you recommend a free limiter plugin that also shows you the waveform?

You have Ozone so you could use that but also try using the stock limiters that come with your daw.

Here's a freebie, I'm sure there's many others that were released since but this is a great one to start with.

Limiter №6

 

[mark skinner]

 Marcello , -6 db on the mix should be good . I normally export the mix out at -6 and import it into another project for mastering. Easy then to see the main waveform and clip it If I need to before hitting Ozone. The thing that's bothering me is when you said when you dragged the threshold down to raise the volume  , that it's moving around when the drums and bass kick in. It should stay where you put it Unless you've still got the "learn" button on. That's why I jumped in late on this conversation.  Sorry if I'm off base on this one.      mark

[Marcello]

1 hour ago, mark skinner said:

 Marcello , -6 db on the mix should be good . I normally export the mix out at -6 and import it into another project for mastering. Easy then to see the main waveform and clip it If I need to before hitting Ozone. The thing that's bothering me is when you said when you dragged the threshold down to raise the volume  , that it's moving around when the drums and bass kick in. It should stay where you put it Unless you've still got the "learn" button on. That's why I jumped in late on this conversation.  Sorry if I'm off base on this one.      mark

Indeed.  It stays where I put it but I can see the clipping in the wave form, it's like this first

then if I increase the theshold to raise the volume because like this is too low, this is what happens (it's mostly kick, snare i think causing those peaks), is this normal???  I think this means it's getting harsh and distorted right?

 

 

check out the reference track I'm using, does it sound harsh ? I'm trying to bring it to the same level of volume but mine is fatiguing not to get distorted.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lB4jC6wVFkZNgK4BpLlRnYZ6yfHUdqld/view?usp=sharing

Edited July 27, 2021 by Marcello

[mark skinner]

The graph is showing me it's having to squash it a good bit to bring up the overall volume. I'm only listening on a laptop so I'm not going to try to evaluate the fidelity of your mix or the reference track ,  neither one sounds bad on this system , but the reference track is pretty fatiguing at that level and has hardly any dynamics. Just loud start to finish. It's a lot harder to get a song sounding Good at -6 than it is at say -10/12.  If this song is part of a project like a cd of your own , bear in mind you'll have to go thru this on Every song if your dead set on keeping everything at these levels .         mark

[Marcello]

19 minutes ago, mark skinner said:

The graph is showing me it's having to squash it a good bit to bring up the overall volume. I'm only listening on a laptop so I'm not going to try to evaluate the fidelity of your mix or the reference track ,  neither one sounds bad on this system , but the reference track is pretty fatiguing at that level and has hardly any dynamics. Just loud start to finish. It's a lot harder to get a song sounding Good at -6 than it is at say -10/12.  If this song is part of a project like a cd of your own , bear in mind you'll have to go thru this on Every song if your dead set on keeping everything at these levels .         mark

With dynamic you mean difference between clean and distorted part in terms of volume?