Will. Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) Who thinks a strictly straight forward stripped down dedicated "Master bus track" would be a great addition to the DAW - with only the Mono/Stereo interleave and FX bin on it? Edited June 2, 2021 by Will_Kaydo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 what would be the function of the master buss? in my case, i have several and most using Pro Channel vs FX bin - MASTER (main listening into HW), MASTER-12 (-12db from master send w/ noise listening for mix thingies jumping or disappearing into HW), PRINT (export buss from master send w/ some additional FX things). MASTER-MONO (mono interleave to a single speaker) plus stem busses. with the exception of LOW stem (mono), all are busses are stereo interleave and only the PC used for anything other than volume and gain. so no improvement for me having a dumbed-down buss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said: what would be the function of the master buss? in my case, i have several and most using Pro Channel vs FX bin - MASTER (main listening into HW), MASTER-12 (-12db from master send w/ noise listening for mix thingies jumping or disappearing into HW), PRINT (export buss from master send w/ some additional FX things). MASTER-MONO (mono interleave to a single speaker) plus stem busses. with the exception of LOW stem (mono), all are busses are stereo interleave and only the PC used for anything other than volume and gain. so no improvement for me having a dumbed-down buss... Well, it'll be as the heading reads. A dedicated MASTER track. Here you will do your final writing to your track. Just your interleave and Fx bin to it. This will prevent accidental tweaks on your "FIXED MASTER BUSS" as it is now. I sometimes come across finding this I had accidentally panned lowered the gain or Volume on my Main Master Track/Buss/ Strip/Channel. You can still create your Master 1/2/ but that dedicated Main Master track will be where you print/write/burn your final project from. You'll have the option not to use it. Some of us will prefer to use it. I bet you that you dont even use the hardware system strip - I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I would alternatively propose just having the ability to selectively disable controls on any track/bus; this would give you this capability, and be more flexible and more broadly useful to more users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Hide the bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, David Baay said: I would alternatively propose just having the ability to selectively disable controls on any track/bus; this would give you this capability, and be more flexible and more broadly useful to more users. Thats already there. Why would I want to hide the features if a dedicated track tbat you can't delete would be a choice. If tracks are not highlighted by selecting them - your files don't get printed. A dedicated track prevents that too. You just need to wrap it with your loop markers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Kevin Perry said: Hide the bus? Hide it how? Meaning, how will that benefit the user? It can be hidden now, but I'm trying to understand how it will help. Edited June 3, 2021 by Will_Kaydo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said: That's already there. Why would I want to hide the features if a dedicated track tbat you can't delete would be a choice. I did not say 'hide'. I said 'disable'. You could see the disabled controls if you chose, but would not be able to change their values or states, and there would be an indication of that, like having the control grayed out. Not everyone will share your particular idea of the perfect Master bus, so it would be better to generalize the capability of locking out controls so they can't be inadvertently changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, David Baay said: I did not say 'hide'. I said 'disable'. You could see the disabled controls if you chose, but would not be able to change their values or states, and there would be an indication of that, like having the control grayed out. Not everyone will share your particular idea of the perfect Master bus, so it would be better to generalize the capability of locking out controls so they can't be inadvertently changed. Read carefully! The ability to "Disable/Hide" them (the controls) - is already there. That is what I said. Why would I want to do that? When the topic is to have a dedicated MASTER TRACK that cant be deleted. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 There is an assumption here that might not make sense to everyone's workflow... What if you're mixing in surround? What if you mix through a summing mixer, or mix in a hybrid system ? In these scenarios, there's no stereo master bus, only separate buses going out to several outputs. A master stereo track doesn't make sense if there's no master stereo mix to put on it. For example, I only started using a stereo master bus in SONAR about 4 - 5 years ago. Prior to that all of my tracks were routed to separate buses, each one being routed to a separate hardware input on my DS2416 cards. That way I could use the EQ / dynamics / effects of the DS2416, and effectively do the whole mix through the mixer built into the cards without using any plugins in SONAR. I've got a similar set up now, where I can route my bus outputs (or an aux track output) to my Alice 828 for analog summing (although to be fair, this is only something I do on occasion). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said: Hide it how? Meaning, how will that benefit the user? It can be hide now, but I'm trying to understand how it will help. Right click on bus - Hide Bus. It prevents your issue: "This will prevent accidental tweaks on your "FIXED MASTER BUSS" as it is now. I sometimes come across finding this I had accidentally panned lowered the gain or Volume on my Main Master Track/Buss/ Strip/Channel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 i'm not sure that you can disable controls etc on a single buss or track, so hiding may be a good choice once it's configured as it's still in the list of busses to export from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said: Read carefully! The ability to "Disable/Hide" them (the controls) - is already there. How do I disable the volume widget on a bus (or track) without hiding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said: Read carefully! The ability to "Disable/Hide" them (the controls) - is already there. That is what I said. Why would I want to do that? When the topic is to have a dedicated MASTER TRACK that cant be deleted. ? Please don't insult me. I did read carefully. You said nothing about preventing deletion of the bus in your first few posts. You just said you wanted limited controls to prevent you from inadvertently changing things. Peace. Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, msmcleod said: What if you're mixing in surround? What if you mix through a summing mixer, or mix in a hybrid system ? Thats why we create 2 or 3 Master tracks in the mixing process to control and balance out certain elements or to further create headroom space when giving the illusion something has been recorded "live" - when it was not. As for your "surround sound track" You that on the mix buss and Master it on your Dedicated Master track. That is why this will be an OPTION for you to choose and save it to your blank/empty template. Edited June 3, 2021 by Will_Kaydo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 hours ago, msmcleod said: In these scenarios, there's no stereo master bus, only separate buses going out to several outputs. A master stereo track doesn't make sense if there's no master stereo mix to put on it. Wont the purpose of it be Stereo that why only the interleave will stay put. For when you do your A/B comparison in the Master process between mono and stereo? 9 hours ago, msmcleod said: For example, I only started using a stereo master bus in SONAR about 4 - 5 years ago. Prior to that all of my tracks were routed to separate buses, each one being routed to a separate hardware input on my DS2416 cards. That way I could use the EQ / dynamics / effects of the DS2416, and effectively do the whole mix through the mixer built into the cards without using any plugins in SONAR. This is exactly why I brought this up. Cause I'm routing digitally in this sense. There's also a few steps and ideas digitally you're giving here with this - to work only with the CbB console in that sense. ☺ True not everyone works in CbB as advance as others. Some barely scratch the surface of CbB. That's why I sometimes go crazy here ? But that's because I use CbB to its full potential "digitally" and because there place for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 hours ago, Kevin Perry said: How do I disable the volume widget on a bus (or track) without hiding it? If you open the console and go to the "Module Tab" theres options to remove the widgets you dont want. Problem with this is - it's globally not per buss or per track. It's only the "Strips Volume" Meter that you can hide per buss or track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 9 hours ago, David Baay said: Please don't insult me. I did read carefully. You said nothing about preventing deletion of the bus in your first few posts. You just said you wanted limited controls to prevent you from inadvertently changing things. Peace. Out. Dude . . . I'm not insulting you. Never did. "Dedicated" I've said it numerous times. It's in the topics heading too. Never insulted you. I meant well when I said read carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said: If you open the console and go to the "Module Tab" theres options to remove the widgets you dont want. Problem with this is - it's globally not per buss or per track. It's only the "Strips Volume" Meter that you can hide per buss or track. And that is hiding, not disabling (yes, its global nature causes the issue, but the fact remains that it's hiding, not disabling a control). One can disable MIDI volume/pan controls, and there's good reason why being able to do the same for audio controls would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Kevin Perry said: And that is hiding, not disabling (yes, its global nature causes the issue, but the fact remains that it's hiding, not disabling a control). One can disable MIDI volume/pan controls, and there's good reason why being able to do the same for audio controls would make sense. "Hide/Disable/Delete" either way. Potato - Patato | Tamato - Tomato. ? Even if that feature can be added with a lock feature - Meaning: To stay in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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