Please critique this mix - Grey Skies

[Michael Martinez]

38 minutes ago, Lynn said:

I, too, like this song, and especially the unique vocals.  If you can't get past the drums on a single track, then I don't think it would be too hard to overdub the drums just the way you like them.  Overall, this could be a real gem just waiting for a little polish.

Overdub? Do you mean add more reverb, or do you mean create an additional drum track?

[Michael Martinez]

2 minutes ago, Chuck E Baby said:

Samples will get you there and lucky for you Sonar/Bandlab has Drum replacer which works very well for those instances (I used to use Audio snap).

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds interesting. Do you mean that Bandlab will take an audio drum track and will "synthesize it", creating a new Midi/instrument drum track? 

As for "1073s" I have no idea what this means, but I will google it. 

I was thinking about compressing the drum track to get the kick to stand out more - is this a valid approach?

[Lynn Wilson]

1 hour ago, Michael Martinez said:

Overdub? Do you mean add more reverb, or do you mean create an additional drum track?

I just read where you're using acoustic drums and not samples; therefor, overdubbing (adding) may not be the way to go unless you have drum replacement software.  I wouldn't recommend adding more reverb, as that will push the drums into the background if you're not careful.  If you compress the track to get the kick to stand out then you will compress all the drums if you don't use a multi-band compressor.  Without knowing what you have and are using, it's hard to advise.  Still, a good song.

[Michael Martinez]

13 minutes ago, Lynn said:

 I wouldn't recommend adding more reverb, as that will push the drums into the background if you're not careful.  If you compress the track to get the kick to stand out then you will compress all the drums if you don't use a multi-band compressor.  Without knowing what you have and are using, it's hard to advise.  Still, a good song.

Good catch. I love how reverb sounds on drums but you're right, I don't want to push them further back into the mix.

Regarding compression, thinking this through ... I guess the kick would *not* be compressed if it's the *only* thing playing when it hits, but if cymbal or snare hits at the same time (and louder) then everything would get compressed .... So yeah can't rely on that either. Darn it.

[antler]

Hi Michael

This is a really good song. It's a good mix too, though I might be tempted to bring the bass down a little.

If I were doing the mix, I might apply slightly more compression to the tracks, so some parts e.g. the piano have a bit more sustain; and so the bass feels a little 'fatter'. It depends though on what overall sound you're after, and I think I personally might have a tendency to veer slightly towards a 'wall of sound' with my stuff (which leads to a lessened dynamic range).

[chuckebaby]

18 hours ago, Michael Martinez said:

I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds interesting. Do you mean that Bandlab will take an audio drum track and will "synthesize it", creating a new Midi/instrument drum track? 

The bass, Vocals and most of the piano anyway sound great. But the drum track sounds weak. But Not the kind of "weak" that can be fixed by simply making the track louder or using EQ.  Im still surprised they are real drums. I thought they were a TTS-1. By using Drum Replacer you could beef it up.

Great song. I love the harmony's. Listened to it again this morning. It really grows on you.

[Michael Martinez]

4 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

The bass, Vocals and most of the piano anyway sound great. But the drum track sounds weak. But Not the kind of "weak" that can be fixed by simply making the track louder or using EQ.  Im still surprised they are real drums. I thought they were a TTS-1. By using Drum Replacer you could beef it up.

Great song. I love the harmony's. Listened to it again this morning. It really grows on you.

Thanks. Actually yesterday I did install Drum Replacer - what a nifty tool. I was able to use it to identify the kicks and snare and create a new midi track and use TTS-1 drum kit to reinforce those. I'm finishing up a new mix of the song, I'll post it here later.

[Wookiee]

This is a much better Mix than I listened too of the the other track Michael, I must be hearing a remix as I am not hearing the lack of bass or kick here.  There is a little light clipping in a few places and you are exceeding the -14 LUFS I have attached a screen grab with Span and Youlean Loudness meter in Soundforge Pro 12 all those little red lines in the Youlean meter are indications of clipping.
 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Wookiee
Typo because of furry paws.

[Michael Martinez]

I wonder where the clipping is coming from? I followed the peaks in my mix and all the tracks were around -8dB and below. Was the clipping ioroduced during the mastering?

On a different note: I took everyone's suggestions here, and I redid the mix from scratch. Here's the new version:

https://clyp.it/o2uqwrw3

I think it sounds cleaner now. But I think I need to lower the level of the bass guitar a little. And maybe add a touch of thickening or stereo width to the vocals.

Let me try running that Loudness meter on the above mp3...

 

[Michael Martinez]

Wookie: I just ran the Youlean meter on the new mix/master and I also see the little red indications of clipping scattered throughout.  I'm not sure where this is coming from... How do I fix this? Should I put a limiter on the stereo out of my mix prior to bouncing down (before mastering)?

Actually I guess there's two things I need to understand how to fix:

1. prevent clipping

2. lower the average LUFS - is this done by simply lowering the level of the master out during the mastering stage, or increasing compression during the mastering stage?

Edited April 13, 2019 by Michael Martinez

[Michael Martinez]

Ok, I'm pretty sure those points of clipping are the vst Kick drum. I wonder if I should compress it/put a limiter on it in the mix.

[Wookiee]

27 minutes ago, Michael Martinez said:

Wookiee: I just ran the Youlean meter on the new mix/master and I also see the little red indications of clipping scattered throughout.  I'm not sure where this is coming from... How do I fix this? Should I put a limiter on the stereo out of my mix prior to bouncing down (before mastering)?

What does it say in the True Peak box @Michael Martinez ?  Looking at the new version it is defiantly not looking as loud.

I am seeing a peak of -0.5 so it looks more like it is warning you you are close to the edge, the other mix was showing +1.5

[Michael Martinez]

1 hour ago, Wookiee said:

What does it say in the True Peak box @Michael Martinez ?  Looking at the new version it is defiantly not looking as loud.

I am seeing a peak of -0.5 so it looks more like it is warning you you are close to the edge, the other mix was showing +1.5

Yeah, I think I figured it out. I lowered the kick a little on the mix, and backed off the boost on the master, I think it's better now. 

[chuckebaby]

Newer mix definitely sounds better with less reverb more kick on the drums. What are you using for cymbals Michael ?

From 1:15 - 1:30. 

[Douglas Kirby]

I don't really hear the kick drum at all, and I think the female vocal needs a bit more compression - like you suggested.  I enjoyed the song - the chorus is a good hook.

Thanks for posting.

[Michael Martinez]

5 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

Newer mix definitely sounds better with less reverb more kick on the drums. What are you using for cymbals Michael ?

From 1:15 - 1:30. 

I wish I could tell you, but I don't know - it's acoustic drums and I'm not the drummer .If you want, I can ask the drummer what he's using.

[Michael Martinez]

4 minutes ago, Douglas Kirby said:

I don't really hear the kick drum at all, and I think the female vocal needs a bit more compression - like you suggested.  I enjoyed the song - the chorus is a good hook.

Thanks for posting.

I think I've got the kick more audible in my latest mix (thanks to Drum Replacer).

For the female vocals, I'll make a note to add some more compression next time I remix it.

[Michael Martinez]

Thanks to everyone on this thead. I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of mixing now.