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[RSMcGuitar]

I mean, why not just slap the tape plugin on the tracks and bounce them down before you start mixing?

[Tommy Byrnes]

37 minutes ago, RSMcGuitar said:

I mean, why not just slap the tape plugin on the tracks and bounce them down before you start mixing?

Also a very good idea, although it's still an inconvenience to freeze and unfreeze tracks. Still, I'll do this often with CPU-heavy plugins like CLA Mixhub, which sounds great but is another cycle-gobbler, and the Lindell 80 Series with 8 times oversampling. The 80 Series is really good. Also, the UAD SSL400, Helios and other Unison plugins end up getting bounced because they gobble SHARCs.

[Brian Walton]

1 hour ago, RSMcGuitar said:

I mean, why not just slap the tape plugin on the tracks and bounce them down before you start mixing?

Thats fine as long as mixing to you is only automating faders.  As for me, I prefer the freedom to continue to make changes with out having to freeze/unfreeze 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Brian Walton

[RSMcGuitar]

2 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Thats fine as long as mixing to you is only automating faders.  As for me, I prefer the freedom to continue to make changes withoiut having to freeze/unfreeze 

I think that's a pretty over the top response. You're still obviously able to do a lot more mixing with whatever plugins you need after. I'm not even talking about freezing, I'm talking about committing to the tape sound as the first step. I do believe that is how tape was used in the first place.
You're basically saying, if you record a guitar amp and then mix it, that is somehow "just automating faders." Do I have to use amp sims to be a 'real mixer'?

[Brian Walton]

5 minutes ago, RSMcGuitar said:

I think that's a pretty over the top response. You're still obviously able to do a lot more mixing with whatever plugins you need after. I'm not even talking about freezing, I'm talking about committing to the tape sound as the first step. I do believe that is how tape was used in the first place.
You're basically saying, if you record a guitar amp and then mix it, that is somehow "just automating faders." Do I have to use amp sims to be a 'real mixer'?

Tape is LAST in a typical channel /effects workflow if you are trying to simulate a real world scenario.  You don't plug your guitar into a tape machine then add EQ, Comp, Reverb after that....you do all that and then you run it into tape to record it.  So you are freezing after everything else is set...thus the fader comment.  It isn't a slight of your mixing abilites, it is a workflow consideration.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Brian Walton

[RSMcGuitar]

4 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

Tape is LAST in a typical channel /effects workflow if you are trying to simulate a real world scenario.  You don't plug your guitar into a tape machine then add EQ, Comp, Reverb after that....you do all that and then you run it into tape to record it.

I don't agree.
You can record a mic through a console onto multitrack tape, then play the tape back through the console and whatever outboard you wanted, then finally printing your 2-bus onto tape.

[Brian Walton]

1 minute ago, RSMcGuitar said:

I don't agree.
You can record a mic through a console onto multitrack tape, then play the tape back through the console and whatever outboard you wanted, then finally printing your 2-bus onto tape.

Yes, I agree you can.

But simulating that also means doubeling up on the console emulation.   And it within a DAW freeze process seems like you would then be freezing, taking that track and moving it to antoehr track to then potentially freeze it again if you need to based on the extra effects needed.

You are correct, but in my experience (which might seem limited) I'd say most people do not record straight to tape without making some other adjustments before getting it there.

That said, I stopped using tape years ago and perhpas modern methods changed dramatically.

[RSMcGuitar]

I found this picture which seems like a basic tape setup to me. There is a reason there are multitrack tape machines and stereo tape machines.
For sure you can treat the source on the way in, but in no way are you limited to doing so.


As far as having to double up on the console emulation, that would be up to the mixers discretion really. You wouldn't necessarily need to add console emulation at all if you didn't want it. You might just want the added harmonics of the tape emulation.
 

[chris.r]

As we're on the freezing topic. I was always trying to avoid having to freeze. as often as possible, and the main reason for it always being that I feared of loosing the exact instruments/effects state after unfreezing. What are your insights about freezing, is the problem occurring often, or maybe, for some of you, never? How often you guys use that feature?

I had some bad experience with Synthmaster not properly loading it's saved state where I had to re-load the project second time and everything was fine then. Hate to have my head always busy with checking if everything is playing correctly but that's how it is now in Cakewalk, always have been. I assume with freezing Synthmaster I'd experience similar issues now and then. Was wondering how are other plugins?

[RSMcGuitar]

I think if you're dealing with audio freezing should be non-destructive, so the original audio remains intact no matter what. I could see freezing an instrument and unfreezing it possibly sounding different due to the randomness inherent in some synths.
I don't do much freezing myself. When I do, hopefully I'm already at the point where I won't need to go back. I tend to just bounce things down and commit, although there is always a way to get things back, unless you delete all the .wav files.
I'd imagine if you updated an instrument that you had frozen in a project, that could be problematic.