Kontakt / Cakewalk volume automation

[Misha]

Hi Folks!

 Can somebody please suggest a workflow other than what I do?
Here is the scenario. Cakewalk + Kontakt+single midi chord track that outputs to Kontakt. Assuming I have 4 instruments loaded in Kontakt. What I want to do is to  automate volume of individual Kontakt instruments linearly - automation lane with nods,  not through Midi learn fader in Kontakt. I usually just open 3-4 instances of Kontakt and use volume automation in Cakewall track which  Kontakt is attached to. The idea is to use a single Kontakt instance, instead of 4 and not using  Kontakt "midi learn" volume sliders. Is that possible? If yes how?  If it is doable, is it possible to do something like a  template for future uses, the "generic" template? Meaning, regardless of what instruments are loaded to have certain number of automation lanes that correspond to Kontakt instruments from up->down. I hope I am making sense I am only interested in volume automation.

Thank you in advance!

[msmcleod]

I'm assuming that the MIDI chord track is sending on a single channel, and all Kontakt instruments are listening on the same MIDI channel?

If this is the case, you need to route each Kontakt instrument to separate audio outputs,  have an audio track for each of the audio outputs (with their audio input set as the corresponding Kontakt output).

You can then use volume automation on each audio track to automate each instrument.

If however, your instruments are listening on different MIDI channels, you could use MIDI volume automation on each channel.

 

[Misha]

msmcleod, thank you for the reply and suggestion. Yes, you correct a single channel in this scenario. 

So, to put it to rest, there is no way to actually use a single track (the one Kontakt sits on) with multiple volume automation lanes in same track (Add Automation Lane) ,  something like Midi envelope channels,  to control volumes of individual instruments  within same single instance of Kontakt?

 

[msmcleod]

10 hours ago, Misha said:

msmcleod, thank you for the reply and suggestion. Yes, you correct a single channel in this scenario. 

So, to put it to rest, there is no way to actually use a single track (the one Kontakt sits on) with multiple volume automation lanes in same track (Add Automation Lane) ,  something like Midi envelope channels,  to control volumes of individual instruments  within same single instance of Kontakt?

 

Not if all the individual instruments are all listening on the same MIDI channel... unless of course, you use assign a different controller for volume within Kontakt for each instrument.

To be honest, I would actually go about this a different way.  I would create per-output instrument tracks for a single Kontakt instance then copy the MIDI clip as a linked clip to the other tracks.

This gives you two advantages:

1. Each track has its own (audio) volume automation, and its own effects bin.
2. By using linked clips, you only need to edit one of them and the rest automatically get updated.

Audio volume automation has a much finer granularity than MIDI automation too, so your far less likely to get a "stepped" effect when automating your volume.

However if you really do just want a single track, another way of doing this would be:

1. Create four per output instrument tracks for each of the instruments
2. Copy the MIDI clip to the other 3 tracks as linked clips
3. Hide tracks 2,3 & 4.

You could then use MIDI volume automation for channels 1,2,3 & 4 on the first track.

OR  another way:

1. Keep the track you have now.
2. Create 3 other MIDI tracks, assigning the output channels to 2,3 & 4 and copy the MIDI clip as a linked clip to those tracks
3. Hide the 3 tracks.
4. In Kontakt, change the MIDI input for instruments 2,3 & 4 to channels 2, 3 & 4.
5. Use MIDI volume automation for channels 1,2,3 & 4 on the first track.

 

[Misha]

msmcleod,

Sorry for not replying sooner, I think my email notification is disabled on the forum.

Thank you for suggestions!

Yeah, I think " I would create per-output instrument tracks" this is the way to go. I have one project I am working on now, do not want to screw it up, will try it on next one.

The last workout also sounds reasonable.

 

Thanks again!

 

[msmcleod]

If you've not used per-output tracks with Kontakt before, check this out:



You can add a new instrument to Kontakt at any time, but make sure you either re-run the batch function after adding it within Kontakt to create a new audio output for it, or manually create one yourself.

As long as you've not re-ordered your Kontakt instruments  in any way since adding your per-output tracks (i.e. you're always just adding a new instrument to the bottom of the list), you can just use the "Clear output section and create one individual channel for each loaded instrument"  function.  This will blow all the existing audio outputs away, and create new ones based on the instrument order.  Don't do this if you've changed any MIDI or Audio outputs for any of your existing Kontakt instruments, or if you've created Aux/FX channels inside Kontakt itself though... else you could get a mismatch between your Cakewalk tracks and your Kontakt instruments.

If you have re-ordered / changed MIDI/audio outputs for any existing Kontakt instruments, or you've added Aux or FX outputs within Kontakt itself, select:  "Split instruments routed to first output channel to individual outputs" to create the additional audio outputs for only the new tracks you've added, then select "Rename output section channels according to assigned instruments" to give them a sensible name in Cakewalk.

Once you've done that, you can close the Kontakt plugin UI, right click on an existing Kontakt track and select "Append Instrument Track" - it'll automatically add a track assigned to the newly added instrument (repeat this for as many instruments you added within Kontakt).

CbB has no way of peeking inside Kontakt to see how you've assigned things , so when using per-output instrument tracks, Cakewalk assumes that you've set up separate and incrementing MIDI channel / Audio outputs for each instrument ( i.e. MIDI Ch 1 = Audio Ch 1, MIDI Ch 2 = Audio Ch 2, etc ).  So in general, I would advise against changing MIDI / Audio outputs for your Kontakt instruments to anything other than this when using per output tracks. 

If you're stacking MIDI parts, it's much easier to use linked clips - if you've not used them, it basically means that the copies and the originals are always kept in sync. Editing any one of them will replicate the change in all the other clips linked to it.  To copy/paste as a linked clip, use CTRL+C to copy, then CTRL+ALT+V to paste (Paste Special) making sure "Link to Original Clip(s)" is checked:



You can manually change your Kontakt MIDI / Audio channels by hand, but it can be a pain keeping the Kontakt Audio/MIDI channels in sync with the Cakewalk tracks. This normally involves splitting the instrument tracks in Cakewalk, fixing up the MIDI / Audio outputs, then re-making them into instrument tracks again.

[Misha]

msmcleod,

you are a beast! (a good one  )

Thank you for deep explanation and a video!  Will try a few scenarios on the next project to see what works better.  

Hopefully this thread will help someone else too.