Problem with LOW frequencies too WIDE?

[Marcello]

 

Hi there,

I'm having an issue, so basically I'm using these SPAN plugin which allows you to see if your mix is balanced, it seems that my mix is building too much low ends on the sides (Left,Right) and not in the center, even if equally balanced L/R, meaning the low ends are too wide.

In  the mix with SPAN Plugin when Routing Mid-Side Stereo I noticed something wrong, in the tutorial they say that usually you don't want too much low end on the sides but more in the mid, also the side waveform should be a bit lower of the mid waveform,  while in my case as you can see from the graph is the opposite, the low end  on the sides overtake the low ends in the mid.

Look at the following 3 screnshoots, There's something wrong,

like if the bass and the kick drums are too wide, and not in the mid, they are equally balanced left and right but not centered.

Someone has any idea how to solve this? 

Here's the mix (yes the guitars are too panned left and right but that's how it should be): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cHksDmh6R7iRNWw2RIaCwfCXdzETeWa0/view?usp=sharing

The green is the mid, the red is the side.

Here it's everything together:

Here's the bass only playing, as you can see it pan centered!!

 

Here's only the drums, look at the kick

[John Nelson]

How does it sound?

[Marcello]

4 minutes ago, John Nelson said:

How does it sound?

You can listen at the link I posted.

I compared it with a Mogwai song, and I can actually hear the difference, the bass is too wide it goes to the back of my ears, the Mogwai one is dead center.

Is there like a plugin opposite of a widener kinda?

Edited March 19, 2021 by Marcello

[Glenn Stanton]

firstly - set low freq sources to mono. you could split the low frequency instruments a send to a low freq buss and another to the higher freq buss. low pass filter everything on the low freq buss so only 150hz and below are coming through and set it to mono. high pass the high freq buss at around the same. if you have the Waves StudioRack then you can use the built-in split on freq option.

you could just send the mono kick and mono bass outputs to a low freq buss, mono, compressed (to taste), high pass everything else (varying as needed) (this is what i do)

there are a number of "bass tightener" effects which work to mono-ize low freq into the center "sanford bass tightener", Waves has one, "bass lane" is another.

[Marcello]

8 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

firstly - set low freq sources to mono. you could split the low frequency instruments a send to a low freq buss and another to the higher freq buss. low pass filter everything on the low freq buss so only 150hz and below are coming through and set it to mono. high pass the high freq buss at around the same. if you have the Waves StudioRack then you can use the built-in split on freq option.

you could just send the mono kick and mono bass outputs to a low freq buss, mono, compressed (to taste), high pass everything else (varying as needed) (this is what i do)

there are a number of "bass tightener" effects which work to mono-ize low freq into the center "sanford bass tightener", Waves has one, "bass lane" is another.

Thanks for the tips! I will check these plugins, in any case the bass is already in mono, and centered, so I don't get why is so wide, I don't think it has to do with cutting the low frequencies, it's just widen, like I can feel the lows in the back of my ears, hopefully these plugins will help.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Marcello

[Craig Anderton]

Try mid/side processing, see my post in your question about 90 degrees out of phase.

[Marcello]

7 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

Try mid/side processing, see my post in your question about 90 degrees out of phase.

Thanks a lot!

If you would like to  give a quick listen to my mix, if you notice some kind of issue, thanks!

This is the link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cHksDmh6R7iRNWw2RIaCwfCXdzETeWa0/view?usp=sharing

[William W. Saunders, Jr.]

Marcello:

Here is another free plug-in from Voxengo that might help.

https://www.voxengo.com/product/correlometer/?eref=ml

Good luck.

Bill

[mark skinner]

Ozone imager is a good one for widening or narrowing a track. It's got good graphics that will "show" you the width of a track. I don't know if it's available as a single plugin or not.    mark

[Light Grenade]

6 hours ago, Marcello said:

You can listen at the link I posted.

I compared it with a Mogwai song, and I can actually hear the difference, the bass is too wide it goes to the back of my ears, the Mogwai one is dead center.

Is there like a plugin opposite of a widener kinda?

Boz Mongoose. It collapses bass frequencies to mono and give you controls for widening HF. 

It's on my mix bus, makes a good bit of difference and helps focus the mix.

[mark skinner]

I just read in your 90 out of phase post , that you recorded the bass in "stereo" . That's not usually done if you want to keep a track narrow.   I also saw the imager plugin there . Sorry I missed your earlier post before repeating here.    ms

[RBH]

Marcello - There is a new forum created recently and specifically for production techniques. It would be great to ask questions there - so we can build the library of production related topics. Your post is a perfect fit.

 

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/44-production-techniques-new/

[Marcello]

1 hour ago, mark skinner said:

I just read in your 90 out of phase post , that you recorded the bass in "stereo" . That's not usually done if you want to keep a track narrow.   I also saw the imager plugin there . Sorry I missed your earlier post before repeating here.    ms

No no sorry my bad, it is mono

[Starship Krupa]

On 3/19/2021 at 2:04 PM, Light Grenade said:

Boz Mongoose. It collapses bass frequencies to mono and give you controls for widening HF.

This indeed. Mongoose is the best one I've used.

Another freeware possibility is Monomizer LE, which is similar to Soundspot MSW2 and part of a 5-plug-in free bundle. It may look at first as if you have to sign up for their mastering course to get them, but scroll down and you can get them by giving them an email address.

[Marcello]

7 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

This indeed. Mongoose is the best one I've used.

Another freeware possibility is Monomizer LE, which is similar to Soundspot MSW2 and part of a 5-plug-in free bundle. It may look at first as if you have to sign up for their mastering course to get them, but scroll down and you can get them by giving them an email address.

I figured out the problem is on every bloody track! everything get wide! 

I tried to open a new project, add a new track and copy paste a track in the new project, re-adding the same plugins, the problem is solved!

But if I try to export the entire tracks template from the corrupted project and import them in the new one the problem is still there!

Very very strange! 

If I copy paste a guitar track pan to 0 (center) for instance in a new track in a new project, it sounds in the mid, in the corrupted project it sound like there is a copy on the left and a copy on the right, extremely wide.

What that could be?

I suspect there is some track setting or something at project level.

I used to copy paste the tracks in the corrupted project, instead of creating a new one, this might have reproduced the issue in every track.

I want to avoid to copy paste and do all settings again to a new project, even if that would solve the issue, it would take me ages!

What could that be? Very strange!

[Will.]

I see this is up twice. 

 

[timboalogo]

Seriously, try Mr. Anderton's mid/side processing. 

An easy way is to find yourself an EQ plug in that does m/s (mid-side) and eq out all your side on the bass instrument(s) ...

Voila you've got a tighter mix with room on the side for instruments, reverb, delays and the like.